To think you should help tidy up after playgroup?

[GreenShorts]

I mean the sort that churches run with volunteers for a pretty nominal cost. At the end of my local one every week the same people sit on their backside whilst everyone else pitches in.

This obviously excludes anyone who might find this difficult (we sometimes have grandparents and I completely understand they may find it difficult). But the people who have happily been running around after their children until tidy up time comes around. Am I unreasonable to think they should get up and help?

I have severe endometriosis and every month I'm lucky to get up out of bed but I always hobble to playgroup and sometimes if I'm really in a bad way i can't get down on the floor and pick up toys otherwise I do pick up toys with the other parents my point being you can't slander people there might be extenuating circumstances I'm sure people think I'm horrid at sitting down during my menstrual cycle

I used to volunteer to help run a local toddler group and this drove me mad. There was a very small charge which covered hiring of the hall and refreshments/snacks so I think people felt because they paid, they didn't need to help.

What I found worse was parents just dumping their mugs in the sink and expecting me to wash them. I even put a notice about the sink asking people to wash their own mugs. People would also leave dirty nappies in toilets etc. I had 3 children under 4 of my own at the group so it was a real stretch for me to do it but no one else would The same few people would help every time. I stopped after a year because I'd had enough.

mummy
I think most people have said they are annoyed / frustrated by people who routinely take the piss.

People who usually do their bit (or in my eyes have good manners) or are older etc wouldn't be looked at funny.

It's people who go regularly and then feel that they can't be bothered to pick up a couple of toys their kids have been playing with, and then sit and chat as everyone else tidies around them that people are fed up with.

MummysWorld, my OP states 'This obviously excludes anyone who might find this difficult'.

I have at times been guilty of leaving to avoid the tidy up, I was embarrassed of how little help I would be. In coincided with when DS always wanted a breastfeed and DD was a "helping" whirlwind that would have been more of a hindrance.
I just stopped going in the end. Might try it again come September when DD is at school. DS loves tidying up!

I help at a non profit toddler group.
I always cheerily tell the kids when it is last play before tidy up time, and then tidy up time. It's good for the kids to help tidy up. Personally I just expect the parents/carers to help the kids get the stuff in the right boxes as I hate having to resort it all through during snack time when I should be supervising my own 2 children at the table. After song time I also politely ask everyone to put one chair away, and ask of anyone could help set up next week.
I don't think badly of the parents who don't help, but am very grateful to ones who do, as it means I can spend more time playing withy own 2. The ones I do grumble about are the ones who come via Costa or Starbucks and leave their fucking takeaway cups lying around the hall for me to pick up afterwards when I'm sweeping the hall and locking up. I am not their FUCKING cleaner - I'm just another mum who wants the toddler group to continue!

its chuff all to do with volunteering. the one i was involved with was a community activity. to me this means many hands make light work.

I used to help run a toddler group and we got a group of five women who came in and sat with their backs to the children. Went off for a fag for 20 minutes in the group of five and did not help tidy up.
When we did the sing song at the end one of their children went up to his mum and asked her to join in and got told "for fucks sake I have paid a quid for those to look after you"
The next week we were ready for them and when they all got up to go for the fags I told them that they needed to stay and supervise their children. I got sworn at and told they would speak to my boss and get me sacked. they actually thought we got paid

In our experience, a large proportion of those that don't offer general help are people who need that time.

Maybe they are not coping well with their toddler at home and need to get out the house

Maybe they have no adult conversation and are grateful for the friendship they find at Toddler group

Maybe the only time their toddler/baby isn't screaming is when occupied with the toys at Toddler group

Maybe they don't have the finances to provide many toys at home

Maybe they are very shy and afraid to stand up and be noticed

Maybe they are afraid of putting things in the wrong place and looking stupid

Maybe they are just so physically exhausted from no sleep that they have no energy

Maybe they are mentally exhausted from other stresses in their life and value being able to just sit

Maybe they are struggling with the responsibility of being a parent and cannot cope with any additional responsibilities

... Im going to stop now. I have millions of other reasons I could continue to reel off..

Point is, it is often the people who don't tidy up that are most in need of coming to the group.

Making these people feel shitty is likely to ailenate them from a group. Yet they need the group a lot more than your average "let my child play while I have a cuppa" crew.

It's uncharitable to be mean.

I love you FATE you're fab on here

Everyone 'judges' others in some way, either correctly or incorrectly. I think the main point of this thread is that there are some who have an attitude that they should not help. This is different from many of the 'maybe' scenarios for which others would notice things about the way people look and probably see that they are not in a 'good place' at that time. I would hope that if the same person came several weeks and did look unhappy that people would try to talk to them sympathetically and reserve any judgement as after all that is one of the primary functions of the group.

There are also the entitled ones who think you are their paid skivvy. But yes, there are also the struggling ones.

Personally I help at toddler group because I'm bloody awful at chit chat, crap at making friends, and I'm so chronically sleep deprived i frequently don't have the energy to string a sentence together. I can't remember the last time I had more than 2 hours sleep in a row but it is counted in years, not weeks ago. "Can you put the duplo back in the box labelled dulplo please" is indeed sometimes all the adult interaction I have all day or week.
Instead of helping me make friends helping at toddler group only seems to make people ignore me as beneath them and not include me in their conversation.
Maybe I need to stop helping and be the mum sat on my backside for a change.

I think the main point of this thread is that there are some who have an attitude that they should not help. This is different from many of the 'maybe' scenarios for which others would notice things about the way people look and probably see that they are not in a 'good place' at that time. I would hope that if the same person came several weeks and did look unhappy that people would try to talk to them sympathetically and reserve any judgement as after all that is one of the primary functions of the group.
Absolutely. I find it a little annoying on any thread where someone has been rude the hive mentality either goes to armchair psychologist diagnosing personality disorders or special needs, LTB or 'but maybe... but maybe... but maybe...".

Sometimes in life people are just rude and selfish.
If someone repeatedly attends a group and expects other people to pick up after them with the attitude of 'my chat is far too implrtant' then to me that is bad manners and I judge a little.

But, if someone was usually great and didn't one week, I'd wonder if they are OK or assume something was up and they didn't want to talk. If someone seemed really out of sorts then I'd make a massive effort to befriend them.

What people are getting frustrated with are people who think "I've paid £2 so other people can tidy up after my child". That's just rude.

Thank you Smellbellina

Or maybe they are just lazy gits? It's not hard to chuck a few toys that your kid has been playing with in a box is it? Being shy, poor or whatever else excuse doesn't prevent you doing that.

I've run a church toddler group for years and never had this problem. We have wonderful volunteers who set up, do all the kitchen work and tidy up the tables etc. All we expect the parents/carers to do is put their empty cup back on the trolley and help the children put toys in the labelled boxes at tidy up time, before we sing songs.

I've never known anyone not join in, unless feeding /dealing with tantrums etc. It's all pretty obvious stuff. I don't know if it's our area, or the fact that we get to know all the adults and chat to them each week so people want to join in. It just seems strange to me that anyone would not join in tidying with their child and every other adult in the room unless they were really struggling.

tea I've only seen it once.

Generally most people understand politeness and don't see picking a couple of toys up as being a massive inconvenience that they are being forced to volunteer.

This really gets my goat, I used to run free stay and play sessions through my job and some parents would either routinely fuck off 5 mins before tidy up time or just blatently sit and chat while everyone else did all the work. Even worse they'd sneak in crisps and other junk and leave their rubbish all over the floor! And god forbid you ask them to help, you'd be whispered about or told 'that's your job, I ain't getting paid to clean up' erm neither am I? I was their to facilitate and support not clear up their shit! If you're physically able to help you bloody well should.

I think the main point of this thread is that there are some who have an attitude that they should not help. This is different from many of the 'maybe' scenarios for which others would notice things about the way people look and probably see that they are not in a 'good place' at that time. I would hope that if the same person came several weeks and did look unhappy that people would try to talk to them sympathetically and reserve any judgement as after all that is one of the primary functions of the group.

Absolutely. I find it a little annoying on any thread where someone has been rude the hive mentality either goes to armchair psychologist diagnosing personality disorders or special needs, LTB or 'but maybe... but maybe... but maybe...".

I can't speak for anyone else, but this^^ totally misses the point I was trying to make.

I rarely mention my faith on MN as I know it's unpopular, but since this is re a church group; it doesn't matter if they have a good reason that you know about, a good reason that you don't know about and can't guess or if they just don't fancy tidying up. It really isn't in the spirit of a Christian organisation to go around berating people and calling them names because they haven't tidied up what you have decided is their fair share of duplo. It's all kinds of wrong.

The church groups I go to are warm and non-judgemental. It makes my skin crawl to think that some people in the group might be posting on this thread calling the women who don't tidy up at our group all kinds of names. I'd rather do all the tidying all the time and that these comments weren't made.

It's not like the non tidiers are leaving an injured person to die in the street. It's tidying toys. You and I are not heroes for tidying up, and they are not the scum of the earth for not tidying up.

The church groups I go to are warm and non-judgemental

...and so more people probably want to help, so the issue itself reduces. Compare to the OP, who goes to a group where this is normal behaviour:

passive aggressively tidy up right next to them hoping to shame them in to it.

It's counter productive. If everyone who helps out is happy to do because they want to, so without being judgemental anyone else - the general warm ethos of the group encourages a mentality where people want to help out and pich in much more readily.

If those who help do so sour faced, passive agressively, often with the specific aim of shaming - what a negative environment for everyone. Such an ethos is likely to have the opposite outcome - make people not want to help out in such a nasty, cold and unkind environment.

The volunteers who run the playgroup get to spend less time with their children if they are tidying up if others don't help. They also have to stay longer afterwards, which makes their child more tired and bearing in mind they arrived usually an hour earlier to set up also, 5/10 minutes is a long time for them. It's about being polite, giving consideration to others and ensuring everyone benefits from session. Tidying up is also about role modelling for your own children and others as well as basic decent manners. Some people are not in a position to help much, for example, someone with a newborn or heavily pregnant, but even then you can help out in other ways like offering to keep an eye on the children whose parents are laughing toys around.

None of the volunteers at either of my groups has young children though. They certainly never bring them with them. I think we're talking about very different groups.

One group of Mothers of young playgroup attendees clearing up after another group of mothers of young play group attendees week after week is bound to grind gears however religious you are.

Yikes! I was brain dead at these type of groups! Feeling bad now. But sometimes mums in the early days (with more than one child) are just muddling through.

I didn't attend regularly and I am socially anxious so really just found it a break from the norm not to socialise