To do this for Dd so she has 'real' friends.

[Marieliala]

Dd is 15 and is desperate to have 'real' friends. She has the crowd she hangs around with at school but wants the kind of friends that sleepover,go to concerts together etc. I feel for her,she does so many activities but is missing out on the 'teenage experience' of having fun.

She would love to have friends over but we can't because her brother is a school refused and is extremely controlling and has destroyed the house. I'm desperate to move but cannot afford it right now.

Aibu to rent out an aibnb nearby as a one off treat,she knows it would only be a one off because I can't even keep up with extra curricular fees or the weekly shop. just so she can have a sleepover (she's slept round friends houses but they've stopped inviting her because she never hosts) . Or is it too extreme ?

OP check out these guys they're a charity who help parents abused by their children. Mentions they work in Enfield but they also have national resources - worth giving them a call anyway - you need some support from people who know how to deal with this kind of thing.

Parent Abuse and Reconciliation Service

I honestly don't know what could've caused a change . DD has had enough to deal with on top of her brother . others have suggested he might of initially felt like he had to protect Dd and then his control just went over board but I don't think that's it.

Stay strong OP. This could be the turning point for your family.

Thank you . I have a feeling we're just going to get another closed case again

This thread brings back horrible memories for me. My brother was violent towards me throughout childhood and I still have nightmares sometimes. After I left home he started hurting my mother instead. Eventually she got SS to get him into sheltered housing but only because she became seriously ill herself (unrelated illness). Please get your daughter some mental health support.

Keep pushing for what is right. It's not you causing grief it's your son, and you are doing the right thing by taking action. Better to make painful changes now than to keep going the way you all have been.

Hang on in there, we are here when you need a hand hold x

Sorry Apple . School have put Dd on the waiting list for counselling. I've tried camhs and a few other local counselling services because Dd self harms but been told she doesn't meet the criteria for them to help her.

Well done for doing something OP.

Stay strong and don't let them just fob you off. Your DS needs help. If they won't do something for him they need to protect you and DD.

OP.... you really are moving forwards strongly now ... and you have the chance for your DD to remember her teens as the time "Mum really fought for me and what was right - she protected me, and looked after me".... You can't change what has happened so far, but you CAN change what happens from now on.

Although I don't know how the system works, I do know you can - as others have suggested:

• bar your DS from your house, getting some sort of police protection/court order (a friend had to sadly do this)
• he will be better looked after and sad though it is has a better chance of a powerful future if he does live with a foster carer for a while, working on his anger issues etc
• your DD and you can create the house you want to live in, and she can have sleepovers there (and with a teen DD myself, I do think some form of reciprocity is important and really does help, especially after all your DD has gone through) - so you working with her to help create the conditions for her to rebuild friendships and safety feels so key ... and yes, I'd be inclined to give her the best ever sleepover full of popcorn and Netflix and whatever she longs for...while recognising it will take time to rebuild those friendships and this is just a first step...

Is it worth your messaging the poster above who is a foster carer who's looked after teens like your DS - to learn a little more of how the system works? And I'm sure there must be a charity helpline who can guide you in how to manage the situation so your DS is both excluded from your house (until he is able to manage his anger or permanently) and looked after.... If no one has ideas, perhaps just ring a national helpline like childline and ask WHO you should ring for help....but I suspect people here can advise...

And be kind to yourself - it is such a tough situation, and I totally understand the fear when he is bigger and stronger than you and un predictable... you are going through something so tough... including recognising that you are no longer the best option for your DS....Good luck... there is so much wise advice in this thread (and also alas too many tough words from people who would feel as powerless and confused and worn down as you do by the situation.... YOU REALLY CAN DO IT and be the mum you want to be to your DD.... and achieve a better future for you all...

Child Protection Chair here - from the information you have given your daughter appears to meet the threshold for a child protection plan so don't be fobbed off. They should be having a strategy discussion and completing a s47 investigation - ask them to clarify.

Where has your daughter gone? Why is she leaving the household and not your son? Would she be happy to live at home with you if your son went into residential or foster care or was placed with family or friends?

The local authority should complete a full assessment to ascertain your children's needs and should refer to other agencies as necessary. Camhs is hard to access, they also have a huge waiting list. However they should be able to enlist family support workers to complete some targeted work and there may be other services locally.

They may discuss section 20 accommodation - ask them to explain this fully but basically you can provide consent for one/both of your children to be accommodated whilst your family receives intensive support.

Your daughter cannot continue to live in this situation - well done for speaking to the school and requesting help. You are all in such a difficult situation but support is out there.

Marieliala I am so pleased you have taken this step and I really want to urge you to hold onto this with a steely grip.

Your son needs to go into alternative care. Whether he can ever live with you and his sister again is something I really doubt, but it may be posssible.

"I honestly don't know what could've caused a change . DD has had enough to deal with on top of her brother . others have suggested he might of initially felt like he had to protect Dd and then his control just went over board but I don't think that's it."

How old was your son when his father died, I think you said all the grandparents were dead too? Did these loses come all together or not?

If I were in your shoes I would start a journal/diary/list of all the factors you can think of that impact your don and daughter and you. It's not that you will be able to sort things out quickly or find the answer quickly but you may find somethings that help to explain some areas of your life.

I feel so much for you because I wonder if you are a bit like that frog in hot water, the water starts out cold and gently gets to boiling. Supposedly the frog doesn't notice what is happening until 'SHIT I'm being boiled alive!" I hink this is how a lot of abuse happens, small things at first and then escalating.

I do not condone your using money from your dd's activities to appease yuor son, but I do know why you did it and why you maybe explained it in your own head as being 'best for everyone'. (If that is what you did.)

Smarites and Barbarian and everyone who has been through similar I am so sorry for you.

OP "School have put Dd on the waiting list for counselling. I've tried camhs and a few other local counselling services because Dd self harms but been told she doesn't meet the criteria for them to help her." I do totally understand, we tried CAMHS when dd was about 7 or 8 and did not get in, when she was 10 we got in but no real help. We are now going back to them because she has deteriorated somewhat. Again, long wait. You can also access some funded care for a short time from some independant organisations. I know one near me. (My dd is too young for their services.) It is worth looking and asking for help from other places and going back to CAMHS if you need to.

I wonder if you, your dd and others who have experienced this are living with a kind of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

I wonder if being able to use that kind of language might help (or am I deludid!).

I know PTSD is often felt to be relevant soldiers who have expereinced the horrors of war but I also know it can be expereinec by suffers of childhood abuse and families under extreme pressure due to things like Autism.

Please look into Eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing (EMDR).

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder/Pages/Treatment.aspx

www.goodtherapy.org/blog/emdr-therapy-for-families-of-children-with-autism-part-i-0128142

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924933812744346

Someone asked why is CAMHS always brought into things, and then mentioned learning difficulties. CAMHS is about mental health issues and there is lots more to mental health issues than learning difficulties.

I am pretty sure my dd is on the spectrum but CAMHS have not been very helpful. She has been very 'difficult' at home but can be as nice as pie at school. Not everyone with mental health issues will behave badly but sometimes very extreme behaviour is down to mental health issues so that is why CAMHS is mentioned so much.

There are lots of websites that can offer help. Some will be in the USA where laws may be different but just reading and understanding how others have coped may be a light bulb moment for you OP.

strainedrelations.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/a-man%E2%80%99s-restraining-order-against-his-son/

Elfieselfie "Child Protection Chair here - from the information you have given your daughter appears to meet the threshold for a child protection plan so don't be fobbed off. They should be having a strategy discussion and completing a s47 investigation - ask them to clarify."

That is so helpful. I think knowing the langauge and proving you will not be fobbed off will be so helpful.

If this thread is helpful please keep posting, we all really want you to succeed at this. You cannot take back the months/years of difficulty but your dd (and you) can begin to heal.

Is your son in contact with you? Do not allow him to make you feel guilty for what you are doing. You must make your nerves steady and just be very clear, what has been happening cannot continue. He will not change overnight, if at all, so do not allow for the prospect of in a week or in a month it will all go back to how it was before. You must be steady and firm in all this.

Thank you , I will have a look at the links. I still haven't heard from Ds but it's not unequal of him to storm out and then turn up at a ridiculous time.
They haven't ever met their grandparents , my parents died when I was a teenager and their father's parents didn't want to keep in contact after their dad passed away. They were too young to remember their dad

They mentioned a child in need plan but not a child protection plan . What does this mean and how is it different to a child protection plan?

I've no idea re child in need plan versus a child protection plan. Lots of info on line.

I cannot vouch for this information, I just Googled!

I found this for Islington, your local area may have one on line.

islingtonchildcare.proceduresonline.com/chapters/p_cin_planning.html

Also...

survivingsafeguarding.co.uk/child-in-need-meeting-cin-section-17/

www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/advice-support-40/serious-stuff-43/857733-difference-between-child-need-plan-child-protection-plan-all.html

pandarific "Parent Abuse and Reconciliation Service" what an excellent idea this is Mumsnet at its finest pooling resources, encouraging and kicking up the arse when necessary.

"I have a feeling we're just going to get another closed case again." If that happens you need to make sure your locks are changed and your son knows not to come back. He can sofa surf and show off his good behaviour to all outside the home while you create a home fit for your dd to return to. I woudl also suggest you speak to your MP and also to a legal firm like the one I linked to pages ago, which might explore starting a case against your local social services on your behalf. It gives me no pleasure at all to suggest this, but you need social services to take over the resonsibility for your son. I believe people who have adopted children can use legal services to get help when none is coming (our son is adopted, he is actually our 'easy'child so this is not personal experienced). However, if the law can help adotped parents, who are legally parents to their children, I do not see why it cannot help you. This does sound exteme, but I think your situation is extreme.

You may not wish to say but how long in months or years has your son been attacking his sister (and you?) and smashing up his home? How many times have you approached the police and social services? Have you got evidence, emails, paperwork etc for any of this/all of this/some of this?

Stay strong.

Op I really feel for you. You have so much on your plate and no one to fall back on. Ds1 (17) is very challenging. We've had to deal with every teenage problem you can imagine over the past couple of years. Ds can really lose his temper when challenged. My dh travels a lot and last month when I had to deal with yet another problem alone I actually found myself thinking I couldn't cope any more. Obviously when dh came back I felt better but you don't have that. You have all my sympathy and I hope you know the people on MN will always be here for you.

MissEliza is your son violent towards you?

Are there other people in the house, other children?

If your son is 17 and violent to you or threatening I would get him to sit down, with your dh, and have a clear talk about how he will have to move out when he is 18 unless he can control his behaviour towards you.

Is he bringing drugs into the house?

Can you convert the garage (if you have one) into a self contained bedroom with loo and if he is actually violent you could shut him out of the home? Sounds fanciful I know but I would imagine you do not want to make him homeless but you also do not want to live in fear! (You mentioned every problem so I thought maybe drugs and/or violence and threats!)

StHeather are you ok ?

Yes the OP son has a lot of troubles but to tell a parent that her child should rot in hell ?!!

You sound like you need serious help.

I'm sorry you've had to go through that with your son MissEliza and I'm sorry to everyone else who have gone through similar.

He's my son,I still love him, Dd loves him . It really hurt me to read that . I don't want my son to rot in hell .

OP do you know what the next steps are? I really hope this time you all get the hell & support needed

StHeathensGrammar are you getting some help.

We do not know all the details or exactly what has happened.

The son needs help so he is not a danger to others anymore. The Mum and daughter need help to process what has happened.

The OP has asked for help many times and been let down by the social services and the police.

I do not want to get political here but if we want to live in a society where mental and physical health is looked after and families in need are helped, we do have to prioritize these things.

Mental health issues are massive. Whether the son has any or not, I am sure the mum and dd do now and they need help. The mum and dd have been failed.

I'm off to bed now. Thank you for the support everyone . I'll answer what I haven't already tomorrow,I'm just a bit hurt by the post about rotting in helll above