To do this for Dd so she has 'real' friends.

[Marieliala]

Dd is 15 and is desperate to have 'real' friends. She has the crowd she hangs around with at school but wants the kind of friends that sleepover,go to concerts together etc. I feel for her,she does so many activities but is missing out on the 'teenage experience' of having fun.

She would love to have friends over but we can't because her brother is a school refused and is extremely controlling and has destroyed the house. I'm desperate to move but cannot afford it right now.

Aibu to rent out an aibnb nearby as a one off treat,she knows it would only be a one off because I can't even keep up with extra curricular fees or the weekly shop. just so she can have a sleepover (she's slept round friends houses but they've stopped inviting her because she never hosts) . Or is it too extreme ?

If your son is being invited to sleepovers and they are the same age the isn't it possible that he is sabotaging her friendships?

They'll know the same peer group so if your DD is too frightened to tell her friends the truth and he is charming (as so many abusers are) and they know him then they'll just think she's making up an excuse not to host them?

Your DD is having her life ruined by her brother. Why do you give into him? Why does he get her money? At what point are you going to deal with him, or do you expect to just it up with him forever?

I think it is also important to say that although the Air BnB idea is lovely, it is yet another message to OP's daughter that she is the one who must appease others, modify behaviour, be reactive to others in order to be accepted.
Growing up in a threatening and oppressive environment is already teaching her that she is the one who must change to accommodate others and thus entrenching negative self-worth and leaving her prone to a lifetime of bending over backwards to please other people.
Again, I'm sorry that I don't have a great solution to suggest but I think it's worth noting.

dinosaurs I don't think it's necessarily a case of seeing her as subhuman or excluding her out of meanness, but an understandable wariness of her situation

Excluding someone who is obviously struggling and in great pain is mean, and is treating them as subhuman, as if their pain doesn't matter. The specific comment I was referring to was them telling her to "'go home to her abusive brother and find someone else to cry about it to". I bet they wouldn't expect to be spoken to like that if they were struggling! But sadly it is what people do.

Barbarian Oh I'm quite sure the morally indignant on here would have kicked their 11 year old sons out at the first sign of trouble, rather than trying to deal with the situation and seeking help (before realising there is no help to be had).

Don't be ridiculous. If it was just about kicking out the son, with no other siblings, fair enough, it would be incredibly difficult. But it's not - there is a DD too, who's needs are being ignored. That's why it's so awful - the son is being prioritised. Why is it so hard to "hurt" the son/kick him out/whatever, but so easy to wreck the daughter's life?

Meant to add - I knw there are no services, Barbarian. Which is why I am so concerned about the DD. There will be no-one there to help her, mental health services will likely blame her/dismiss her (via a personality disorder diagnosis as problems will be ingrained beofre age 18). The son, OTOH, is obviously capable of not being a cunt as he has friends, so he'll be fine if he chooses to.

It was certainly my experience that there was no support for me. And that I was so depressed and tormented by my experiences at his hands that I ended up lonely and friendless.
Whereas my brother turned on the superficial charm which was nowhere to be seen at home and hopped from friendship group to friendship group making otherwise nice people into his apologists since he was cunning enough not to show them what he was capable of.
There is a very particular kind of torture which comes from seeing an abuser thrive while you yourself repeatedly suffer the consequences of their actions.

I've called dds school and explained the situation. They've involved social services, they've asked Dd what she wants to do and she doesn't want to come homd

There was a thread recently where posters said that if they didn't get a return invite to a reception child's party then they would blacklist that child and never invite them again.

In the case of sleepovers I can see why it might grate after a while. I understand that the OP's dd wouldn't want to invite people to her home but to a person with no clue about her home life it might seem like freeloading. There are circumstances where Id be happy with no invites ever but it helps to know that the family can't rather than won't have sleepovers. Obviously I'm not saying that OP DD has to tell her friends the details.

This is such a sad story. I fear more of them if further cuts to services happen 😢

what's going to happen? Is she going to stay there, are they going to find temporary foster care for her? Personally I think your son should be moving out, not her. I can appreciate how hard it must be to manage this sort of situation though, what a nightmare

StHeathensGrammar glad more people are getting wise to the diagnosing of traumatised (most often) females with 'personality disorders'

Smarties yes it is a special kind of torture...

I may get flamed for this and I am always on the side of people in abusive situations but I do get tired of parents setting up unhealthy and traumatising environments for their children and then wanting ss/mental health services to come and sort out the kids and label them with all sorts of 'behavioural disorders' etc...I do believe many parents could do with a hell of a lot of mental health support/guidance themselves before they decide to have children....your comment about giving your son money to appease him made me despair.....

Will now take cover for incoming.....

I agree try young cares group. She could get accepted on the basis of her brothers issues impacting on her emotionally and affecting her social life. They do some great activities and overnight trips. She may find some more understanding friends there

Where do you live op? You obviously don't have to answer.
I'm in the West Midlands and if you are local to me I'd happily come round and help with a bit of decorating, fixing cupboards etc.

Wonder if we could get a group of mumsnetters together?

That sounds like a step forward, OP. I mean, social services taking it seriously.

I know a lot of us have said harsh things to you here - I am wondering if there is stuff in your own past that makes it easier to give in to your son and ignore DDs needs. I'm glad you're still here and hope posters can be of support.

smarties There is a very particular kind of torture which comes from seeing an abuser thrive while you yourself repeatedly suffer the consequences of their actions.

Lightbulb moment. Thank you.

You're welcome Saint. It's like watching someone well fed stuff their face while you're starving. Getting hungrier and hungrier while they keep gorging on things you can only dream of nibbling.
I'm sorry for whatever experiences you've undergone that made that chime with you.

OP remember she doesn't want to come home to the environment as it is. You need to escalate and not take no for an answer. Your DD can not live with her violent sibling and neither can you.

I agree - your daughter not coming home (tonight? This week? Ever?) in no way solves the problem/

"He's never been diagnosed with anything"

"Family don't want to help because they think I created all this by not being firm enough "

"I'll admit sometimes I give Ds the money that's for Dd's activities,revision books ,school equipment just so he doesn't kick off."

There could well be more to all this, but this looks to me like a situation where your son has abominable behaviour and rather than setting boundaries, you are effectively paying him to be a shit.

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. But...I find it odd that you would consider renting a house good enough for a modest party, while accepting that your own house is trashed and not suitable for visitors. If it isn't suitable for visitors, it isn't suitable for you and your dd. this is the thing. You have a son with terrible behaviour and no diagnosis and either you have to massively step up your parenting or you have to work out what extra help he needs, and get it.

Weaselling out to an airbnb isn't the answer.

I know that might sound mean - I am sure it is - and of course it goes without saying that there is a lot I don't know.

But bringing up children properly is hard. It is being strong and consistent when you have nothing left, every single day. Some people (perhaps temporarily) don't succeed in doing this. And when that happens their children are not well brought up. It happens. Not every case of an unmanageable child is a case of SN. Sometimes it's a badly behaved child.

You have an absolute responsibility to fix your home life for your daughter. Friends are important, yes, but home and family are her bedrock and you have failed her.

If your son is being invited to sleepovers and they are the same age the isn't it possible that he is sabotaging her friendships?

I had the exact same thought. The line about going home to be abused absolutely reeks of someone who thinks they're being bullshitted. Not that I think 15 year olds can reasonably be expected to deal with someone as traumatised as DD is, although some can, but yeah, to me, that sounded like she's not being believed.

And fucking hell OP, you can't go on like this. Your failure to act, because you absolutely could refuse to take him back if you wanted to, is setting your DD up for a lifetime of issues. You have to do something now.

Her friends don't sound too pleasant. Once you find a group who truly are kind to each other, it doesn't matter at all if they can't come to your house. That's a small aspect of the friendship. Trips out like concerts are fab, but again not essential. Encourage her to talk to different girls and stick with the nice ones.

"It's not uncommon for teenagers with complex, chaotic home lives to find it hard making and sustaining healthy friendships. It's hard enough as a teenage girl navigating social politics without all this."

yes. and doesn't the op talk about moving schools too?

As i explained in my first post Stheathens I have also lived this. My parents did eventually have my db taken into care - to protect all of us. Was it the right thing to do? I still don't know. Listening to Smarties experience, yes it probably did. But my db was sexually abused and introduced to heroin whilst in care and it certainly destroyed/advanced the destruction of his life - he's in his 40s now and still an addict. And for the rest of us - there is a lot of guilt. So there is damage whatever happens.

Well done for ringing the school OP.

I'm so sorry OP!
I have lived with foster children who behave in similar ways. Sometimes there is hidden trauma at the root of it, who knows. Sometimes a dynamic gets established which is really hard to change. I'm sure you have done everything that you are able to, to address it.

Miss "Your failure to act, because you absolutely could refuse to take him back if you wanted to, " I don't think this is true. I think you can be prosecuted for child abandonment. A friend was in a similar situation with a very abusive YP, was left unsupported for far too long and threatened with this when they tried to refuse to have him back.

I hope that whatever happens now results in better support for OP and most of all for her daughter.

This thread has been a major reality check . The school arranged a meeting with an emergency social worker and a police officer . It's now a child protection issue and Dd has gone to stay with a close family friend whilst DS is being dealt with for her safety. The read why it's so hard for me to deal with ds is because he's stronger and bigger than me.

I'm nowhere near West Midlands but thank you so much for the offer. I don't know why Ds is the one being invited everywhere because Dd has told people he's horrible but no one believes it when he acts like a saint with them. There's no point in me telling him he's not allowed to go out if he doesn't go to school because he'll kick off and go anyways

That's great news! We all know how hard this is for you, so it's good to hear that you're being taken seriously.