To think people who would otherwise vote for corbyn may not because of Diane Abbott?

[chunkychicken1]

Sorry if there's already a thread about her latest cringeworthy interview but I couldn't find one... here she was on sky new last night, clearly having failed to read the police report she was there to discuss:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/3731086/shadow-home-secretary-diane-abbott-car-crash-interview-sky-police-security-london-bridge-attacks-terror/amp/

I like corbyn and what he stands for, but I can't give him my vote with these buffoons around him!

Brexit need not have happened at all if Corbyn found it in himself to properly campaign against it, instead of the half arsed campaign he ran.

So why do you trust him with the negotiations?

Why do people keep saying the Tories have 'no plan' for Brexit? What on earth do you think people behind the scenes have been working on for the last year? If you're about to go into negotiations with an EU that is apparently out to punish Britain, of course you're not going to outline in detail everything you are hoping to get out of a deal. That would be utterly daft! It's just Labour propaganda to keep pedaling the 'no plan' bollocks!

Who isn't going to be affected by Brexit Dan? All parties are lying about the consequences. But since I want the UK to be a fairer place with a stronger economy and have some global standing I'll be voting Labour.

- The ideological attack on the disabled, sick, poor and elderly

Can you tell me about the Tories' ideological attack on the elderly, Make?

Yes, if you think chanting, 'no deal is better than a bad deal' constitutes a plan then I'm sure you will be v. happy with May's approach.

Many Brexit voters are continuing in their delusion that the Tories have got a Brexit strategy but it looks like May, Boris and Davis are woefully ill-prepared for Brexit

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-david-davis-no-economic-impact-assess-uk-eu-leave-no-deal-select-committee-a7630626.html

David Allen Green is an interesting one to follow if you are interested in a non-partisan approach to May's Brexit non-plan.

What on earth do you think people behind the scenes have been working on for the last year?

Dementia Tax? Because it sure isn't Brexit plans. This negotiation isn't a bridge hand out at the yacht club....in a little over a year some sort of relationship will exist, and it needs to be one that won't hurt the economy.

They've published their 'plan' dippy. Have you read it? It isn't a plan.

The EU have published their guidelines which is what the UK will be negotiating on. Have you read those? www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/04/29-euco-brexit-guidelines/.

See anything in May's 'plan' that goes anywhere near addressing the complexity of options involved? She wants a thumping majority to pretend she has a 'mandate' but for what? Strong and Stable?

It won't be Corbyn that will be negotiating for Labour but Sir Keir Starmer who has pointed out that May has already set an unnecessary belligerent tone with EU colleagues. Labour are definitely going for a softer Brexit but at least they've added some detail.

The interesting thing will be to see if May's disastrous Brexit approach - and it does appear disastrous to everyone except hard-core Tories/Daily Mail readers - will move the moderate Tory supporters to change their vote.
If they do, I guess they will go to LibDem or Green rather than Labour though.

I'm neither a 'hard-core Tory', nor a Daily Mail reader, indeed there are many things I do not agree with in terms of Conservative policies. However, in this election, I have voted for them as I do believe the alternative under Labour would be disastrous for the economy and the U.K. as a whole. Labour's figures don't add up - corporation tax has come down in recent years, yet tax revenue has increased. If businesses have to pay more tax, they won't just suck it up - they will either move elsewhere, or decrease their workforce. But don't worry, Corbyn will make the phantom 'rich' pay for his grand plans.
Anyway, sorry to derail the thread...

It won't be Corbyn that will be negotiating for Labour but Sir Keir Starmer who has pointed out that May has already set an unnecessary belligerent tone with EU colleagues. Labour are definitely going for a softer Brexit but at least they've added some detail
It doesn't matter who the UK puts up to negotiate. We can only get what the EU are willing to offer.

It doesn't matter who the UK puts up to negotiate. We can only get what the EU are willing to offer.

And given that Corbyn will accept any deal, it wont be very much.

So you suggest that you believe Tories have a plan for Brexit that they have been working on for a year, and you believe that they are being secretive rather than incompetent. You said that the idea that they have no plan is Labour bollox. But when people explained that there was no evidence for this, you just went on to rant about something else?

Ok. Great discussion.

And given that Corbyn will accept any deal, it wont be very much

Why is no deal better than any deal? There's no logic to that assertion.

Actually histinyhands, I was quite willing to come back about the Brexit plan/no plan, but unfortunately I do have a life outside of Mumsnet and got sidetracked. In answer, yes I have read the EU's 'plan' and didn't think it told me anything new - of course they want to put the other 27 members' interests first, hardly a revelation! Also, the link about David Davis is also non-news - nobody can accurately predict the future before any deal has been reached.
Now perhaps you'd like to tell me how raising corporation tax and taxing the rich (read middle classes), is going to generate the billions required to fund Corbyn's plans? Or do you just want to have another rant about how stupid anyone with an opposing view to yours is?

I don't understand 'no deal is better than a bad deal' because surely 'no deal' is the absolute definition of a 'bad deal.'

I apologise it seemed curious to come back and not answer the stream of points in front of you but to instead introduce some more but yes, I am easily distracted too!

I still don't get where you are getting the idea that tories have a plan from? They really don't. The worse thing is, in reality, there is no possible good deal, the brexiteers have fucked this country over...

Yeah - ontop, it's surely a mark of how little people understand what no deal means that so many people think it's great. It's moronic. (Good article in ny times today on this)

As for the rest, I don't know- I'm not thrilled with any of the parties, but my priority is Nhs, schools, the police, and as little brexit as possible, I don't trust may, her record is shocking, her ideas are risible so it won't be her/them.

This is a Brexit election for me. As a Labour Brexit voter I am really struggling. I have a lot of time for Jeremy Corbyn - he has absolutely nailed this election. I like him and I like his manifesto and importantly for me I don't believe he was ever a big fan of the EU.

But trouble is I don't like those Labour MP's trying their very best to get rid of him at every opportunity. Nor do I like their anti Brexit stance and there are some who will do everything they can to derail the process. The Labour Candidate I would be voting for is one of them - I have to ask myself can I really vote for someone who has been very vocal in his opinion of Corbyn and his anti-Brexit campaign.

It's paining me just to think that I I'm even considering throwing my concience out of the window and ignoring my heart. I have never ever not voted Labour.

I actually don't know why I am deliberating so much on this - my vote won't make the slightest difference. I live in a very Conservative area with an MP who actively campaigned for Brexit - he doesn't need my vote because he will win with a huge majority anyway.

Oh dear, I was hoping writing it down would help and now I feel even more undecided. One more night to sleep on it.

Histinyhands - I don't know how you can be so certain they've decided to just 'wing it', without any plan. You haven't answered how Corbyn will realistically fund all his policies. Of course we'd all like the nhs to have all the money it needs, no tuition fees for university, fantastic funding for education and the police. Who wouldn't? But it has to actually be paid for.
I'm sure I'm not going to convince you to agree with me, any more than you will me, but that's democracy for you.

dippy
It's very simple...
Labour would use our taxes to pay for education health and welfare for all.

Conservatives use our taxes to fund wars, weapons, their rich friends and themselves.

Dippy Why are you asking how Corbyn is going to fund all his policies? How is Theresa May going to fund all her policies. She's provided no costings, she's flip flopped over social care, her school brekkers is twice as much as she suggested (or she only wants a 7p meal). She has no plan for Brexit. We've had 3 recent terror attacks. She's cut the police by 20,000. Security on the cheap. What more evidence due you need? Deaths due to lack of social care is happening in GB right now, we have no ambition it seems to improved this. Any alternative is 'unicorn land'. What is the matter with people in the UK?.

For me it's also very simple - I do not believe Corbyn will be able to generate the billions he needs to fund his policies. For example, if he'd said we should scrap tuition fees for courses such as nursing, or even reduce the fees for everyone, it could be achievable. Saying he'll scrap them for everybody, reintroduce grants and wipe student loan debt, along with all the other fantastic spending policies, is not possible if 95% of the population won't have to pay any more tax

Look at the countries where socialism has been introduced - France, Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. as well as Cuba and Venezuela. Massive unemployment and economies going down the pan

Like here is already then

I do not believe Corbyn will be able to generate the billions he needs to fund his policies

Nor do I. For a start he's double counting a lot of extra taxes he thinks he's going to raise. He's also underestimating how hard it will be to target the illegal tax evaders - if it was so easy why didn't Brown do it over his 13 years in power?

But the biggie - he's planning to raise billions extra by making the global companies pay more tax rather than "offshoring" their profits. But he's missed the elephant in the room. The current government is already doing that - the UK is one of the early adopters of the new OECD global scheme to make companies pay taxes in the country where the profits are generated - it's already happening today! It's not "new" money anymore.

For offshore personal tax evasion, the UK has recently agreed with 90 other countries to share information about savings, bank accounts, etc., and those illegally evading UK tax by trying to hide money offshore are being caught and made to pay up - it's already happening now, today, yesterday, tomorrow. It's not "new" anymore either.

Corbyn isn't introducing anything new in these areas - so it's not new money that he'll be finding at all. It's just one big lie, based on how things used to work a few years ago. I just can't believe how gullible people are to fall for it. Corbyn has a huge black hole in his figures and that means he can't deliver on his promises and the deficit will shoot up!

The Monkey - unemployment in the UK is the lowest it's been since 1975 (4.6%). France's is almost double, Spain's is about 18% and Greece's at 23%. So no, not the same here at all