When I hear "we won't let them win" I now think, Hallo! They are winning!

[bruffian]

How the hell can we stop this?

They aren't winning. People aren't stopping living their lives.

Today people will get up, go to work, go to the supermarket, go for lunch, go to the cinema, go to the park. They'll meet their friends, visit their families, pick up their kids and go to get petrol. People will do the 101 perfectly normal and mundane things that they do and which form part and parcel of normal life. They may slow down a bit today. People in London near Borough Market may pause to reflect and remember the victims and those who sadly died - but they will move on and carry on living.

Islamic extremist terrorists want people to be too scared to go out. They want the bars and concerts to close down because everyone is too frightened to go to them. They want people to fear them and for that fear to spill over into everyday life and prevent people from doing what they would otherwise do. But this isn't happening.

What the terrorists did was vile, horrific, cowardly and indefensible. People are frightened and they may hug their kids closer today, but the terrorists didn't win - and they won't.

Because helping in an immediate fight or flight situation is very different to trying to help in very complex, long term problems
Which have a very low success rate. I don't think it's hard to understand at all

I agree there's no point panicking - but on some level this has become a fear - anyone that has smallish kids must have that worry when they're in busy places.

I'm considering doing some sort of defence course.

Practically, surely May has to come up with increased funding for home defence services? Perhaps we need a new set of security volunteers at gigs and busy places to be extra pairs of eyes - they'd need to be properly trained.

I don't think it's possible, instasista. I don't think they follow up without the caller having to give details. If I am wrong and anyone in the police can reassure me on this, it would be good to know. (In any case they'd have a record of a caller's number which they wouldn't have had in the past).

This concerns me because the authorities seem now to be more focused on tackling perceived hate crime against certain groups than they are with finding perpetrators, or places where potential perpetrators might be.

A while back, the press reported the number of terrorist attacks that had been foiled. I was at the sheer number of them.

The security services just get the flack for the stuff that does happen, and rarely gets praise for the stuff it intercepts and actually stops.

My thoughts and prayers for everyone involved in London last night.

They aren't winning...they're no closer to achieving their goals than they ever have been. They've achieved nothing apart from making people think they are stupid, subhuman, and barbaric. You'd laugh at them for being so pathetic and unintelligent if you weren't too busy feeling so sad about the mindless murders they commit. That's the difference - being an actual human with a tad of emotional intelligence.

RIP, their poor victims

I don't know how relevant it is and I am only making a reference out of historical interest but this sort of talk would have been considered treasonous/seditionary during WWII and a hanging offence.

I am under no illusions about conditions during WWII and do not romanticise the period but this country could not have endured years of war with the attitude 'they are winning, there is nothing we can do about it'

ciele

"The Prevent policy, which seeks to identify people at risk of radicalisation and guide them away from extremist behaviour, has been criticised as intrusive by sections of the Muslim community and Labour politicians.

More than 8,000 people have been referred for possible inclusion in the scheme, many by councils, schools and other public bodies. Its work was strongly defended by Mr Afzal, an expert on deradicalisation who has brought successful prosecutions for terrorism offences.

“It’s stopped at least 150 people from going to Syria, 50 of them children,” he said. “It’s grassroots — it’s not about criminalising and it has an impact but it’s constantly undermined by myths that urgently need to be challenged.”

Mr Afzal, who was chief crown prosecutor for the northwest from 2011-15, said that untruths about Prevent had gained currency because of politicians’ failure to communicate its “phenomenally good work” in protecting children from extremism."

What's going on with our security services though? Why are they failing to stop these people time and again? Wouldn't a responsible PM be investigating their failings?

How can the security services stop people taking a van and doing this? It's hardly a sophisticated attack - it's quick and brutal.

It is harrowing, it is horrendous. It feels like we are in an epidemic of it at the moment - but that's what they want us to feel.

we are not losing and they are not winning.

I do think this is a response to ISIS losing in the Middle East - their final push on the western front to get us to give up trying to roll them out of power.

Pigface Yes that is one of the reasons I am not that bothered about fracking and nuclear energy. Fracking has reduced massively the US dependence on ME oil. It had a direct effect on the Saudi regime. We need to cut off their funding. They know money talks, so whatever they do, Western politicians will ask them nicely to do something about their habit of funding worldwide terrorism but when faced with cold hard cash flooding into the London property market in particular, or in arms sales, will 'forget' to hold their feet to the fire. I don't hold out much hope when we have Teresa May kowtowing to them and Donald Trump the hypocrite completely forgetting the only sensible thing he ever said and bowing and scraping and dancing with them.

As a woman you are much more likely to be killed by your partner than terrorism but I don't see anyone panicking and throwing the husband/partner out.

A child who is murdered is most likely to have dies at the hands of their carers or parents.

As for 'winning' well they kill themselves almost as often as they kill other people.

Beverly Allit killed at least 4 children and tried to kill at least another 5, leaving some with life changing injuries.

Fred and Rose West killed at least 11 women and children.

Harold Shipman is thought to have killed 200+ people.

Yes the terrorist attacks are horrific, but the people carrying them out are no more evil than many who walk amongst us.

Totally agree about the revelation of the terrorists being British born men under 25.

People clearly who have lost their way and follow IS idealology because they are brainwashed into feeling worth something and loved by someone who will reward them if they die for them.

Yet we still continue to cut MH services.

Noeffingidea is spot on.

After every terrorist incident, people talk about road accidents or domestic violence.

It doesn't help.

They're not 'winning'.

I don't 'conquered'.

Do you?

Some people were killed. That is very sad. But no-one's 'won' anything.

Yes the terrorist attacks are horrific, but the people carrying them out are no more evil than many who walk amongst us.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Please elaborate.

I don't feel 'conquered'.

Really stop with the probability stats. It's neither clever not helpful.

I do agree that the relentless repetition of the gory details by BBC news just amplifies what is already horrific news.

LadyInCement (rather horrible name?) - surely sashh's comment is obvious?

She means that lots of people die in events that aren't terrorism.

*After every terrorist incident, people talk about road accidents or domestic violence.

It doesn't help.*

I totally disagree.

Really stop with the probability stats. It's neither clever not helpful.

I find it really helpful and comforting so please just speak for yourself. Some of us find facts far more useful than hysterical hyperbole.