When I hear "we won't let them win" I now think, Hallo! They are winning!

[bruffian]

How the hell can we stop this?

Fake suicide vests may have been worn to stop people from attacking them, enabling them to continue attacking others.

Agree whirl.

They are winning. They are terrifying people and noone has a fucking clue how to deal with it.
We know how to deal with it.
Do not make a fuss.
Do not become hysterical, whining 'they're winning'.
Observe, report. Get on with life.

Why are you trying to encourage fear, OP? Who are you? What is your motivation?

I have a lot of sympathy with your comments, bruffian, and think you are entirely correct as to motive. It seems to be a miserable loathing for anyone having a good time, with young women and by association gay men in the firing line. The ultimate motive being to make everyone else as miserable and angry as they are - who knows.

I see many people every day who I think are "radicalised" but I have nowhere to go with my suspicions. I don't want to give someone my name, address, go on the record. I want to advise anonymously and have the authorities follow and interview my hunches (as in wartime).

Talking about them being able to create an apocalypse is simply hysterical scaremongering. Self-evidently they can't, because they haven't come remotely close to it. The police and security forces are frustrating planned attacks all the time, and there is no way they could plan something like that and keep it secret.

The Second World War analogy is poor.

Ww2 was a war situation where both sides were hammering the other. There were victories and defeats in both sides over the years, people were buoyed up by perceived victories and vowed not to be crushed by defeats.

Totally different to today; we will pop some candles and flowers at the site, change our Facebook page and talk about being stronger whilst the enemy cracks on with causing mayhem, death, fear and random devastation.

Well, they're doing it to create the maximum fear, if they targeted the Government and the likes it wouldn't be as effective. I suppose their mindset too is that we vote these Governments in. These situations of course are terrifying but you're more likely to die in a road traffic accident to put it in perspective. Most people don't stop going about daily life in case that happens, so why change the way you carry on for a more rare event.

They are not winning.

The way to counter it is to build a more inclusive society - something we have been destroying since the referendum.
And maybe less political posturing in the middle east (or wherever). Less bombing people, more help for refugees, more care over those killed in other countries eg. Bombing at a funeral in Kabul?

"Today 08:26 user1487175389

I'm not sure what you think the point of MI6 is if it isn't to detect and eliminate terrorism, instasista. It's not for me to come up with innovative methods - they need to be adapting and changing to meet the current threat. That's what we pay them to do. "

You see this on threads about social services- how can babies carry on being beaten to death by their parents why don't social services stop it?

The security services in this country are genuinely, I understand, thought to be the best in the world. I imagine they aren't preventing and reducing the risk of terror every single day. But if you expect them to end any of these attacks ever happening, you have a really unrealistic idea about the kind of service they can provide.

I was at a concert in a nearby city last night and I must admit it crossed my mind that there might be an attack. But you cant stop living just because something might happen. I might have been hit by a bus, or the train derailed on the way home. But I am very glad those murderous cunts were taken down by the police. Wish we could take one alive for some gentle questioning....

All this thread does is make people fear more which is what they want us to do.

Op you are letting them win with this thread.

They are not winning because we will not give into what they want

I appreciate I'm coming into this thread late and what I'm saying may have been said before but they AREN'T winning. The extremely conservative Islam ISIS is constantly pining for is such a long way from being a reality here and this country IS a relatively liberal country.

My main fear is an insurgence of the very right wing in response to this terrorism. Although a different brand of Very Right Wing let's not forget that that's what ISIS are. It is good for no one except the very lucky.

they aren't winning - because we are not in any sort of competition that is winnable.

The terminology needs to change - "terrorists" - needs to change to "murderers" - we don't know the motive of everyone who kills and glamorising (not the right word but you get the gist) the killers by having people "killed in acts of terror" rather than simply murdered does nothing to help the mindsets of those involved.

They aren't winning OP. You are scare mongering and it's not helpful.

Excellent post deckoff

they are winning. Honestly, some people on here sound like children.
youarenotkiddingme I agree with your point about the terrorist temper tantrum. I think violent attacks will decrease once they see they don't really achieve anything. Though other tactics will come into play.
I think they could probably quite easily create an apocalyspe if they wanted to. What a load of shite. Daesh have been unable to even establish one single Islamic state. Most Muslims don't want that, let alone people of other religions and atheists. There are not enough of these nutters to 'win'. Yes they will achieve some casualties but that number (as horrific as they are on an individual basis) are just a drop in the ocean.

Just carry on living your life. That's all we can do. Some of us have lived through this with the IRA and we got through that, so I know we can get through this too. It's just important to unite, carry on as normal and not allow them to divide us as a nation. We live in a scarey world at the moment but the vast majority of us want peace and love and I really do think that that will prevail over the evil minority.

Today 08:35 user1471545174 why on earth can't you inform the authorities confidentially of your concerns?

The lawyer whose article appeared in The Times yesterday said Prevent WAS NOT successful. It is being undermined by extremists through too much funding to mosques.
Read it again.

It's like a terrorist temper tantrum.

I love this ^^

We 'stop' it by refusing to be terrified. There will always be deluded, sad individuals in a population their activities come and go. The media using phrases like 'worst ever' - 'co-ordinated attacks' is a problem - if only they could stick to facts rather than supposition for these events at least.
It's a problem because the next deluded saddo and his mates are inspired to go one better.
As for us we need to just help those affected and carry on business as usual

I don' t think it is a case of one side winning...it depends i suppose on how you define winning and what would constitute a win in these circumstances.
Every attack that doesn't get foiled or stopped by our security services is a 'win' for 'them' but every one that does is a 'win' for us ??? well in that case we are winning by far. Many many individuals, cells of plotters, actual attacks are being stopped each day, but these are not reported by the media..obviously.
if 'winning' for 'them' is making people afraid...well yes maybe they have 'won' a bit, i travel weekly to london from a nice safe coastal/rural area and i am more nervous about the tube /bus etc than maybe i was a few years back...but does it stop me ? No..so i guess 'win ' for me there.

I am old enough to recall the 1970's and 80's when the IRA were extremely active and i lived in a home county town that was a definite target. It was scary then too....i do not think the current situation is really that different, and perhaps a tad optimistically i think that eventually that situation resolved/reduced/calmed due to persistent diplomatic efforts.

I personally hate the cries 'we will not be beaten' and the out pouring of national emotion about ' our great city ' and how the 'spirit of wherever shines through' blah blah....yes it is amazing when things happen and ordinary people rush to help , but i always think of day to day life in these places ( manchester/london etc) with people begging on the streets and kids homeless...where is the great collective spirit of love for the people and city then ?

Op you are letting them win with this thread.

This thread has been very interesting! If you think discussing ideas and feelings is 'letting them win' then surely YOU are letting them win by decrying free speech?

Yes I admit my post about the apocalypse sounds over the top. And I do understand that the actual number of people killed is very small.

Btw, I don't pretend to know what can be done in the short term to prevent these attacks.

But in the long term, one thing we in the West must do is reduce our dependence on oil. Some PPs have correctly posted observations about Saudi funding of global extremism. The reason they get away with it? Because we are desperately dependent on them for oil.

Obviously there are little environmental steps that each and every one of us can take towards reducing our dependence on oil. Many of us are too quick to dismiss environmental issues as something for beardy weirdies to worry about and we continue happily washing our bedsheets at 60c twice a week. But everything's interconnected.