When I hear "we won't let them win" I now think, Hallo! They are winning!

[bruffian]

How the hell can we stop this?

Alright, it doesn't help ME!

As others have said, saying "Well, lots of people die... there are people dying of old age " is not helpful to the discussion and just silly.

Google Lady in Cement. Actually, I'll do it for you: comedy crime film.

TheFirstMrsDV yes I was referring to the mindset. I'm older, my parents grew up in the war and that kind of attitude was very real right into the 70's. Perhaps it helped people to get through the IRA crisis.
I know we can take the piss with 'stay calm' and all that business, and of course free speech is very important, but it's important to keep some perspective.

user - I find the stats very helpful to stop me descending into what would otherwise be a rather pointless panic.

Here are some more stats:

www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015

If you scroll halfway down, you can see the most recent data, updated to include the recent Manchestr attacks. It clearly shows that terrorism now is far less of a threat than it was when we were growing up in the 1970s and 80s.

IRA terrorism used to be a huge problem. Now it isn't. Loads of other terrorist groups used to be a problem (anyone remember the regular ETA attacks as well? - dozens killed). ISIS- inspired attacks will likely go the same way too.

Perhaps we should have a Trump travel ban. I am
Only half joking to be honest.

Its not silly.
What is silly to have thread upon thread on MN full of people claiming we are helpless and hopeless.

More than silly , its pathetic.

It's really simple to stop these car attacks?!?!

Er, what?

garden but what would stop them driving a car onto any other street? How can we just put bollards on every street?? That wouldn't be practical.

It doesn't help me either, tinyhands - I also find it minimising.

It makes no difference to my level of panic, I'm a Londoner.

seoulsurvivor they can put bollards in pedestrian areas where people tend to congregate and socialise, to limit potential casualties.
In fact I thought this was already underway. Of course it will cost money.

The aim.of the terrorists is to try and have a caliphate based on a a crazy and ridiculous interpretation of Islam.

Terror attacks in the west are awful. Many more a being killed daily in Muslim countries.

It is very difficult to kill an idea. That's why having got rid of bin laden, a new group develops. What we have to do is ensure the idea doesn't appeal.

Oh stop blaming the media!! It would be nuts not to report it.
It would be nuts not to report it. But we don't need sensationalist reporting that stirs up divides because that's what terror groups want. They want a divided country so that people will turn in Muslims and then the terror group can swoop in on fertile ground and say 'see we told you the west hate you. Come and join us'.

If we stand together, then they won't have the stream of recruits willing to fight.

Pigface an Riversleep: It definitely makes me more supportive of fracking too.

It heartens me slightly that I am not alone in that type of thinking.

As to this not changing how we live our lives, well it does affect my choices where I am able to make them. It would be foolhardy not to imo. Each to their own.

I do however bridle at the exhortations from police chiefs/ politicians to get out there ( and spend money...) People respond in different ways.

They are not winning.

Having an impact I agree as any other murderers would, the human impact is massive. However we still get up in the morning, live our lives, go to work, love and care for our children.

My plans haven't changed, I just think we are probably more aware and vigilant but fear cannot rule us. The polarized views on my fb feed are saddening me, please god democracy and shared things in common keep us united.

I wish they would stop calling them terrorists, they are cold blooded murderers

I grew up during the mainland IRA campaign, and I developed this mindset.

Yes, at any moment you may be harmed or killed by a terrorist. At that point then yes, they've 'won'.

However, if you spend your life up to that point worrying and/or reducing your freedom and quality of life due to their threat then they've also 'won', they'll have won twice.

I'm sorry if this seems crass, but I try my hardest not to let them win twice, if anything should happen to me or my loved ones.

I guess on some level they have won, they get to hurt people who have been directly injured or killed and their relatives. They also win through the people that change their plans or behaviour as a direct consequence of these events. They also win by having lots of airtime on TV around the world.

However, they won't win for me (and a lot of others) on a personal level as I won't change my behaviour or plans based on their attacks.

Well it doesn't make me support fracking. Fracking risks poisoning the land and the water table and then where would we be. And the risks with nuclear power are obvious.

Yes we should rely less on middle eastern oil but there are better alternatives.

The great satirist Randy Newman has a song called "A Few Words in Defense of Our Country." He is referring to the US but I think it's applicable to the UK as well. Excerpt from the lyrics:

You know, a president once said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"
Now it seems like we're supposed to be afraid
It's patriotic, in fact
Color-coded
What are we supposed to be afraid of?
Why, of being afraid
That's what terror means, doesn't it?
That's what it used to mean

I don't think that ISIS is "winning" by any stretch of the imagination in terms of geopolitical reality. But if people in the UK (or the US or France or wherever) become caught up in a collective sense of fear that limits their lives or curtails their daily activities, that does indeed seem to be handing a small psychological victory to ISIS and similar groups.

In order to get to the root of the problem, we have to see it in a larger context. It really isn't as simple as "they just hate us." For one thing, who would be "they" and who would be "us"? Many of the recent attackers have been born and raised in the countries where they have committed acts of terror. To quote another wise American (Walt Kelly's Pogo): "We have met the enemy and he is us."

Someone upthread said these attacks are by individuals. Obvs we don't know the details of this attack but for other similar terrorist attrocities, this is just not true and I don't understand why someone would claim it be be the case. The international links with ISIS are, for example, well established for the Manchester bomber.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/everything-know-manchester-suicide-bomber-salman-abedi/

The security services say they have to be lucky every day. The terrorists only have to be lucky once.

The police can't stop everything.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/manchester-bomber-controlled-isil-group-behind-paris-attacks/

I lived and worked in London through the IRA bombings which killed far more people than current murders by ISIS/Extremist Muslim Murderers.

We did just have to get on with it.

I am very suspicious of people who don't want to hear about the facts and just want to fearmonger. You never really know who is behind a keyboard...........

I also think it's reasonable to be scared and to ask questions of our government about how they are going to keep us safe.

Perhaps the government could start with providing police with better resources instead of runnjng the service into the ground.

With regard to stopping this, there should be concrete planters or some kind of irregular intermittant barriers on footpath of London Bridge (& similar bridges). I thought as much when I walked across there a few months ago. Too open.

The bastards aren't beating me, though.

I don't understand all this panic hand-wringing when London endured the Blitz & decades of IRA bombings. I thought the Brits were a lot tougher than these online discussions suggest.

user14- can't you phone crime stoppers? That's anon