When I hear "we won't let them win" I now think, Hallo! They are winning!

[bruffian]

How the hell can we stop this?

YES Lady, bloody standing ovation, so true, because money has always mattered more and that will never change, oil, money, egos, corruption

And the 'they' we refer to are fucking murdering bastards

@bruffian inspired by. It wasn't an Isis attack. They keep themselves well out of it. It isn't organised in that way. We're still on catch up with this kind of terrorism. And the fact that most of the internet is a legal Wild West doesn't help.

What does it's too early to talk about ISIS mean?

OP I don't really understand your definition of winning. The country isn't terrified- well I'm not anyway. Look how many attacks France has lived through. They haven't won there have they?

The lawyer in the Rochdale enquiry seems to think the PREVENT strategy has had results

Not saying they shouldn't report it- that would be ridiculous. Just that it should be done in a more factual way eg. Issuing statements from the emergency services rather than soundbites from someone who lives nearby and heard 'explosions' (which were actually police gunfire but makes it sound like a bombing incident.)

OK. They aren't winning. They can basically do what they like, strike everywhere without warning and kill and maim hundreds of people.

bruffian it's reality.
Terrorist attacks will keep on happening and we have to deal with it. The nature of terrorism (secretive and opportunistic) means that some will succeed, no matter how efficient security is.
How the fuck do you think British people survived the 2nd world war? Not with your kind of attitude, that's for sure. People had to accept that they could die in a bombing at any time, and move on from there. That was life at the time, and life now means that there is a (still very very small) chance that we can be mown down or blown up by a religiously motivated maniac.
Yes it could possibly have been prevented twenty or thirty years ago but it's too late now.

This situation is nothing like the second world war

Indeed it isn't. Our risk is MUCH LOWER.

Terrorism isn't a new thing btw. That's what I remember if I start getting nervous.

It's been going at least 2000 years since the Zealots and it's notoriously unsuccessful at actually achieving the aims of the group involved. Eventually things slow down and stop. When was the last time you heard of a Basque seperatist terrorism incident in Spain for eg? Yet they were very regular not that long ago.

Terrorism is good at creating fear and uncertainty so that's the bit the general public can do something about. Can refuse to be afraid. Keep using local services so the economy keeps going. Keep being friendly to others different to yourself.

PREVENT is controversial because it doesn't tackle potential extremism in a way that draws at risk people in, but in a way that pushes them away. That's very risky. It could be done much better.

Of course it is

Bars (alcohol) concerts ( young women out enjoying life freely)

Almost as if it's a direct slur in modern day living.

Of course the risk is lower than the 2nd world war I mean.

@bruffian if that was to me I suggest you spend some time learning about the Blitz and how many people were killed and injured.

Almost as if it's a direct slur in modern day living

Well duh! That's obvious, isn't it?

They are winning in the sense of the fear they are creating is making people scared.

Statistics show that 1.4 people in the UK die of terror attacks per year, compared to 2900 who die due to using mobile phones while driving. Compared to 100, I think, who die due to dog attacks and 19 who a die yearly due to accidents with hot water.

We are safer now than we were when we were under attack from the IRA.

"Today 08:02 bruffian

OK. They aren't winning. They can basically do what they like, strike everywhere without warning and kill and maim hundreds of people."

This is really quite hysterical though isn't it? They're not striking everywhere or killing hundreds.

What do you want "someone" to do? Of course there would be no warning. The characterisation of these lone wolf attacks is they're almost impossible to prevent. What do you want?

It's not as concise as WWII but it has its similarities.

There is no winning or losing.
It's not a physical win.
It's a mental state of abject terror.

Fear to leave my flat, or take the kids on the tube.
Dear to be out drinking (sinning) in the evening. Fear to attend concerts (sinning)....

Which is why it can't be won, cos the extremists will never give up. And the will of the free will never give in.

They have killed and maimed over a hundred people this year?

They are wining in that they are killing people. So when people say keep calm and carry on and don't let them win it doesn't make sense. They're targeting women and children in uk cities. I hate them.

They've won in that I'm not scared of Muslims and don't want to be near any.

I'm a bit at the use of the word "they". The people committing these acts are not part of a global network, they're disparate individuals, which make them much harder to stop.

However, of the 3 recent attacks, police have stopped a further 5. Something is working within our security forces. The question is, how to better support them.

If you mean Isis then no they're not winning, because they have very definite things that they want (retain and expand the lands they've already got, create global caliphate, bring about the apocalypse) and they're largely not getting that.

"I've always sort of thought it was a reaction to foreign policy."

I never thought that. Or, it was a minor part of my thinking. But the whole thing itself, is quite extreme, complex and can't be stopped.

There's nothing anyone can do other than carry on. We make it sound like a choice but we have no other choice.

I think they could probably quite easily create an apocalypse if they wanted to.