When I hear "we won't let them win" I now think, Hallo! They are winning!

[bruffian]

How the hell can we stop this?

"They" just describes terrorists though doesn't it? How else would you describe them?

takeabreak if you're not scared of muslims that probably means they haven't won doesn't it?

Someone going out killing people isn't really winning at anything. I can't even understand the things being said on here tbh

What's going on with our security services though? Why are they failing to stop these people time and again? Wouldn't a responsible PM be investigating their failings?

They are winning if they want to create a divided society.

I'm more scared personally of living in a city and raising a son where more than 20 teenagers have been stabbed to death in the last six months.

Not to detract from the people who lost their lives in these attacks and their families, any loss is terrible. But focussing your fear on something disproportionately plays into the hands of these mentally ill people and feeds the behaviour.

They do want to. And no they can't, or they would.

Really excellent article written by a risk analyst that addresses the issues raised on this thread:
www.independent.co.uk/voices/nice-attack-do-you-feel-like-youre-more-likely-than-ever-to-be-hit-by-a-terror-attack-this-is-why-a7140396.html

User1487 how could they stop them? It's not really possible

An oblique reference to the Rochdale case, mooting a possible apocalypse? Where are you going with this op I wonder? State your point.

bruffian I don't say this very often, but you need to get a grip.
I used the 2nd world war as an example of when life was dangerous and could potentially end at any minute, yet people still managed to get on with their lives, go to work, socialise, have babies, etc without living in constant terror.
If you don't like that example then try thinking of somewhere like Afghanistan, where you can be standing in the market doing your shopping when a lorry full of explosives suddenly detonates and blows hundreds of ordinary innocent people into smithereens.
Just keep it in proportion.

I've always sort of thought it was a reaction to foreign policy. Now I think they just hate us. It's always bars, concerts.

It's places where there is high people density.

There are terrorist attacks in countries where majority of victims are Muslims. This is not about hating 'Western' people.

This is about creating division and hatred between communities.

It can only work if we let it.

And another one which lays out the odds of dying from a number of causes against being killed in a terror attack:
www.techjuice.pk/a-data-scientist-explains-odds-of-dying-in-a-terrorist-attack/

The worst thing is they still want more ! They are winning no doubt about that. People are dying, it's a monthly occurrence now. We are powerless to stop them really so I'm afraid to say they are winning!

I don't think they are winning. That's why they've increased their reign of terror. It's like a terrorist temper tantrum.

What's bothering me this morning is the BBC seem to be using it to back the Torys campaign and all I can think is fuck off with that.

Am I right in remembering the attacks in France increased before their election?

Of course they are not 'winning'

People being hysterical helps them get a tiny bit closer to their goal though.

Its fucking outrageous that terrorists have killed more people.
Its fucking outrageous that my city has been targeted again.
They are bad, bad things.

Thinking they are not winning doesn't make anyone an apologist or deluded.

With the news- what I think the new reporting is is increasingly tacky and intrusive. But it's not affecting whether these attacks happen

Totally agree with nice

Today, tomorrow, the next day, 4 - 5 people will get into their cars and will die on UK roads. This fact does not stop most of us from getting up each day and driving. There are ways of minimising individual risk but basically when you're number is up, it's up.

All the hysteria is what they want. The more we talk about "us and them" the more the terrorists are "winning."

whirlwind - your last paragraph:

Be inclusive to people you think may be at risk of radicalisation. Make it harder for the terrorists to fuck with their heads and convince them terrorism is the right way.'

is something I have been saying for a while - people who are excluded and made to feel worthless are going to be easy pickings for the nutters who think violence is the way to go. We were discussing this recently and comparing it to the grooming of the girls in Rochdale, vulnerable and displaced.

I find it gutting hearing authorities saying 'just get on with your lives, carry on as normal'. Having you throat cut or being driven at on a night out isn't normal. This situation is no longer normal. I don't see an answer to it all either. Although I am extremely proud that they were all dispatched within 8 mins of the first call. Does anyone know what the point of the hoax suicide vests? I don't get it - perhaps some sort of sad in joke between them?

Well they do need May to get in.

Corby, as much as I'm not a fan, at least has spoken about the funding of extremist mosques and schools by Saudi Arabia.

May just shook their hands and took their money.

I'm not sure what you think the point of MI6 is if it isn't to detect and eliminate terrorism, instasista. It's not for me to come up with innovative methods - they need to be adapting and changing to meet the current threat. That's what we pay them to do.

And ffs May and Trump, stop brown - nosing the bloody Saudis. They're bankrolling the terrorists you claim to oppose. And their state itself is brutal and inhumane.

Not saying they shouldn't report it- that would be ridiculous. Just that it should be done in a more factual way eg. Issuing statements from the emergency services rather than soundbites from someone who lives nearby and heard 'explosions' (which were actually police gunfire but makes it sound like a bombing incident.)

State-controlled media that only reports what the Government wants you to hear? Not a peep from anyone else. What a fabulous idea and so popular in so many countries in the past and present.

Now that would mean that terrorists were winning. It usually means they are in charge of the country as well

I've been excluded and disenfranchised in the uk.

At no point have I considered killing anybody.

I agree with a pp. there is something already wrong with these young men.

Saudi funded schools and mosques are teaching some children that we are not equal, we are to be butchered.

Cuddling them won't help, stabbing the hydra in the heart instead of trying to chop off its many heads may be a strart.

(Disclaimer: not saying we stab anybody, just that something desperately needs to be done about Saudi being allowed to spread Wahhabism in the country)

Does anyone know what the point of the hoax suicide vests

I wondered about that. Seems to me wearing a fake suicide vest makes it very likely the police would need to kill them.
So them wearing the vests was a way to make sure they died during the attack?

It wasn't an oblique reference to Rochdale. There was an interesting article in the times yesterday about this.

I intend to continue living my life. I will do what I always do. If they want to kill me for not following their way of lives so be it. Sadly it's the world we live in know. Terrorism is part and parcel. And there is no way to end it.

I think we should look at the people openly encouraging these thoughts, like in Luton, there was a Stacy dooly documentary a few years ago where she was told by a Muslim women that she looked naked cause she wasn't covered up. And sharia law courts, in London. Where a women's word is treated as half of a Man! It's bonkers!

I wouldn't move to another country and demand the residents live a way to please me. I think some members of the Muslim faith, just can't integrate into our society.

Comparisons with WW2 and the IRA are a bit out of place. In those cases, people knew who the enemy was and why the attacks were happening. That's why references to 'they' are a bit misleading. Who are 'they'? Any money says that the attackers from last night, just like Salman Abedi, will be British-born, British-educated men under the ages of 25.

What we're experiencing is our own citizens turning on us, which is much more like a civil war, which we haven't had in this country for centuries.

In terms of winning - if you mean IS, then they aren't winning, in the large scale sense. They won't win until 'the black flag of Islam flies over Downing Street'. If you mean the attackers from last night - it's impossible to know what they actually wanted. They've died martyrs, which presumably they did want, but will by now have found out that the 72 virgins thing was bullshit.