When I hear "we won't let them win" I now think, Hallo! They are winning!

[bruffian]

How the hell can we stop this?

My DP was born Muslim.
His family want nothing to do with him, because they are extreme and he is not. In his words 'they are blind to reality'
He says Islam is not a religion of peace.

We need to work on this in schools - the school k work in is a no. Faith school but with an 80% Muslim population.
We have parents telling their children to only play with muslims, parents telling their children that people who wears cross are crazy and children refusing to read s book with s pig in it.
We have hoarded of children who are excluded from all Christmas celebrations at the insistence of their parents even though we also have a big Eud party which all faiths attend and children of other faiths have never been withdrawn by parents.
There is a lack of tolerance in about 20% of our school community which I feel is reflective of the percentage of the Muslim community at large and from this lack of tolerance a few will be ripe for radicalisation.
We need to INSIST that a tolerance and understanding of all faiths is core in our national curriculum. We tried to share the Koran, Torah and bible by passing replicas around on a circle to talk about different faiths but there were screams of Haram by our yrs 5's and 6's at the Bible (They didn't know what the Torah was) and they refused to hold it, some even cried, it was nuts, such extreme reactions to just opening a mind to others having differing beliefs. We need to get a policy change that children MUST be taught tolerance and parents may not withdraw - current policy is too soft and aids home grown extremist attitudes.

Mairead That is a big step forward - but we need more of it, and we need to hear more of it. I really apreciated the BBC interview with the surgeon who treated many of the London Bridge victims - and happened to be Muslim.

The truth is the extremists are a tiny minority of the Muslim population, so my hope is that the more enlightened majority is the answer to the problem. But they need to do even more and be more vocal.

Because a religious fanatic will only listen to religious arguments, if anything.

Thank you Tannyfastic.
So much is misconstrued and people need to wake up and smell the coffee. Last night on the BBC..again..they talked about the commandment 'Thou shall not kill'..being one they follow, one all religions follow. Well they were wrong.
It is a commandment that has been adopted in its absolute form by many religions, and rightly so.
But Islam adopts it with caveat..an exception to the rule in certain justifiable circumstances. And the killing of infidels like us...well that's ok. Virgins galore await in paradise to congratulate them on arrival.
T May was right..Enough is enough. But I do wish she clarified exactly what that meant!

Fact 1

The Quran requires that you read it in full. Isis and Islamophobes instead cherry pick. Quran 3:8 pre-emptively calls out people who cherry pick as “perverse” people, declaring, “…those in whose hearts is perversity seek discord and wrong interpretation of [the Quran].”

But don’t some verses of the Quran in fact say, “kill them where ye find them?”

Fact 2

Islam is a practical faith that permits self-defence in certain strict situations. When? Let the Quran explain see article

Fact 3

You might now understand who the Quran refers to when it says “kill them where you find them”. The “them” are those terrorists who persecuted people for their faith, exiled them from their homes and then pursued to kill innocent people in their new homes.

Misconceptions about Islam creep in because people learn about the faith from headline news rather than from the Quran and the Prophet.

(from the article I have linked to)

K00kie Do you have a link or can you point me in the direction of information about the fatwah in Pakistan you mentioned about suicide bombings?

Tanny It's all true and awful - that's why Islam is such a fertile ground for violence and extremism, if interpreted literally. But if we paint all Muslims with the same brush, the only way forward is a gigantic religious war, and that would be even worse.

I can't stand organised religion. The world would be a much much better place without it.

I live in the arse end of nowhere.
I have planned a central London trip with kids in Aug.
H wants me to cancel it.
Will I heck!

And a lot of us have the intelligence to read beyond any media representation of this.
I have read enough to know, that as a religion, Islam has a massive problem. The powers that be need to address these issues with interpretation, and haul their meanings into modern view.
The Catholic Church has had its fair share of issues over the years, but they have sought to address them and move forward with the times.
After all, there is no religion without the people who follow.

The Manchester bomber said he wanted revenge for his friend who was killed in a racist attack and for the children killed in Libya (which I think is the reason he targeted a young concert audience

His friend was an alleged drug dealer who was killed by a rival gang. Nothing to do with racism. The children killed in Libya are mostly being killed by his fellow ISIS members.

I am a born and bred Londoner. Lived through the IRA bombs of the 70s. Have seen so many different nationalities arrive here, integrate and also the many problems that ensued. But we grew together, the old racist, homophobic, mysoginstic attitude has largely gone.
But that's the point. We changed with all of that. We learned to be more cohesive.
They can't defeat us. There are too many of us. They can't kill us all. Life will go on. We may get jumpy on the tube if someone looks sweaty with a rucksack. But ultimately we just get on with each other as best we can, given its 9 million people of a 1000 nationalities all just trying to live, eat, raise kids etc.
Also. These sad little fucks that are radicalised online: Germany are bringing in a law to put the onus on internet providers to take down these twisted, evil morons that are poisoning their minds. We need the same.
Could say a lot more. But you are wrong OP. They have no hope of taking us down.

Recommend article by Ayaan Hirsi Ali in yesterday's Sunday Times, about male Muslim view of women and shame, and female modesty, and the 'need' to control women. This is at the root of so much violence against women, and of lack of shared values in this country. It is no coincidence that many of the victims at the Manchester concert were girls and young women. The concert had been described as 'shameful'. These attitudes have to change and urgently, but who ever confronts them?

My feeling is the media help to create fear and it must be awful for the families to see repeats of incidents nearly every time they open the paper or switch on television . What I don't understand is the people involved were known to security agencies why can't they do something about them obviously I am not in the know and there will be more to it than I know . Just want to finish by saying my heart goes out to all caught up in these attacks and their families .

CrossWordSalad It is on Pakistani news - I wonder why it hasn't made it to the West.

www.thenews.com.pk/latest/207047-Religious-scholars-issue-unanimous-fatwa-declaring-suicide-attacks-Haram

True, it mainly related to suicide attacks against the state, but it's a start. I hope it's not fake news.

38 cody..i think you should forward your whole post to whoever is pm and education minister after the election. schools need to make sure all faiths are tolerant of each other and also that children mix socially whilst at school.

The extract that Tannyfastic certainly dispels the 'Islam is a religion of peace". Not my idea of peace. I agree that organised religion is something the world can do without. Sorry if this offends but you would do just as well believing Aesop's fables than holy books of every religion. Religion really is the opium of the people. It seems like practically the whole world is being put at risk because of someone's version of a fairy tale. I resent that greatly.

I understand that most Muslims practice a sensible and respectful religion, perhaps they should do this in the comfort of their homes and close all mosques. Extreme it is, but so are the extremists within their religion.

Just seen luvvfizz post. Close mosques? So we should punish the law abiding and the decent but Send extremists to worship in living rooms where their activities are totally unmonitored and unrestrained by moderates?

Yeah. That'll work.

(Are you Donald Trump?)

Totally agree

FFS, close mosques??? what a ridiculous idea.

The schools my kids and most others attend have always encouraged the embracement & tolerance of all faiths. The Islamic free school in my nearby town, is known for doing anything but. Yet this is funded by our 'free' society...

K00kie Thanks, that's really interesting. I don't know much about Pakistan other than I have been reading about the dreadful murder of Mashal Khan. The fatwah does seem a very positive step.

Does anyone know once a fatwah is issued, does that become generally accepted as teaching or is it optional or dependant on which mosque you attend whether you accept it or not?

Yes the innocent muslims suffer by closing mosques but not as much the innocent people who are killed by Muslim extremists. If the extremists are forced to plan i their living rooms, then perhaps intelligence can keep a closer eye on them.

We do t want underground mosques - that would breed more hatred.