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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Staunch Tory wavering

311 replies

FuckyDuck · 01/06/2017 07:56

So as title says, I have always been a staunch Tory supporter and I also voted leave in the EU referendum. I genuinely have the utmost faith in TM to deliver brexit to the best of her ability

BUT

the NHS & education...

JC is someone I could never respect but labours approach to the NHS and education seems to be far far better. However I simply cannot abide any of their social policies (my view on this is that EVERYONE who is physically and mentally capable of working, should, no one gets a free ride unless disabled/caring for someone who is)

Now I don't want Tory flaming but I need to decide whether the Tory economical and social policies outweigh Labours NHS plans and education policies. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
WorldsacpeLove · 03/06/2017 08:39

@user1487175389 Not him, his behaviour with antisemitism makes him unworthy of respect for one. I could list others.

mummytime · 03/06/2017 09:01

Defence - the Tories have massively cut the number of soldiers (and police). I would much rather spend less on Trident etc and have more soldiers. The threats in the world need a flexible response not nuclear weapons. (And I'm not a Labour voter).

Sostenueto · 03/06/2017 09:19

What really made me sick last night watching the leaders question time was the amount if people pushing JC about pressing the red button. It seems an awful lot of people have no compunction about blowing up millions of people. It was sickening!

Killdora · 03/06/2017 09:22

Those sort of people don't see the evil mad forriners as human beings Sostenueto

Whatsername17 · 03/06/2017 09:24

Vote for policies not people

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/06/2017 09:30

Where do Corbyn supporters think he is going to get the money to pay for his ridiculous re-re-nationalisation proposals?

Those assets are owned - the shares have to be bought back.

Topseyt · 03/06/2017 09:40

Sostenueto, I thought that too.

It is an unfair line of questioning and should have been stopped once it was clear how many apparently bloodthirsty twats were sitting in that audience.

Surely nobody, from whatever party, actually wants to press the button at all.

I wondered if those arses had been planted in the audience by Donald Trump. It is the sort of crap he would spout.

citroenpresse · 03/06/2017 09:44

Re nationalising water, the Guardian were suggesting it would be 69billion (public borrowing) at 1.5% but the dividend stream is 3.4%. Less appealing than nationalising railways which offer more opportunity for improvement and profit (currently disappearing out of the UK to overseas owners).

user1487175389 · 03/06/2017 09:52

If you think Jeremy Corbyn is anti semitic, please provide evidence to the police, who will then arrest him for hate crimes. If there's no evidence please stop libelling him.

pointythings · 03/06/2017 10:01

OP, you should definitely vote Tory. You approve of the bedroom tax and the benefit cap - enough said, they are your tribe.

Killdora · 03/06/2017 10:03

I did find it quite funny last night.

That poor nurse being told by TM that the reason she had had a pay cut in real terms was that there were 'hard decisions' having to be made about public sector pay.

I forget, have mp's salaries been frozen too? They are in the public sector after all, and I would have thought that they would have at least made some hard decisions about their own pay.

LadySalmakia · 03/06/2017 10:09

I think everyone who can work should, too. But the Tony's policies towards vulnerable and disabled people aren't helping them to work, they're causing distress and illness and making things worse for people. Their approach to it isn't too help and encourage people into work, it's been more about forcing people off benefits with no safety net and no way to get work.

Please don't vote Tory. They really are going to destroy the NHS and they're already destroying lives.

There's a good article about the effects of the benefits policies here - www.theguardian.com/careers/2017/feb/23/disability-employment-gap-sanctions-cuts-and-death-after-fit-to-work-tests

It is the guardian.co.uk so yes a left wing paper, but they're not making it up - this is really happening to people.

Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds · 03/06/2017 10:14

This is interesting and from a Professor of Economics at Oxford

mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/theresa-may.html?m=1

CloudPerson · 03/06/2017 10:24

I've gone from voting Tory and growing up in a staunch Tory voting family (who thought Thatcher was amazing and Kinnock a silly, whining little man).

We were lucky enough to have a privileged childhood, cushioned from the decisions that Thatcher made, and until fairly recently, didn't have a clue that the way I voted could effect anyone, or if I did stop and think, I would have considered people who were poor and on benefits to be scroungers, to simply not be trying hard enough.

I changed because I started to see the effects on the NHS, on schools etc, and on people like me (my sons and I are autistic).

Corbyn wasn't on my radar until a friend went to see him speak and came back inspired by what she heard. Until then, I listened to my family's views - scruffy, weak, no charisma, didn't sing the national anthem.
Now, everyone whose views I admire is voting labour. People whose views towards poverty, disability, schools etc I find questionable are voting conservative. (I'm puzzled how so many have such a nasty attitude towards disability, that it's a lifestyle choice, that everyone can do something and if they don't they're being lazy, that it's something that happens to other people, not them).

The reasons I'll be voting labour next week are as follows:

NHS - the conservatives have been steadily dismantling the NHS, and if they get back into power, they plan to use the Naylor report (google it). In doing so this will destroy the NHS, irreversibly.
I want the NHS to be in safer hands. Parts of it certainly need changing, but not in the way the Tories will.

Education - the last few years have seen some awful changes, and decisions made that will undoubtedly lead to more children coming out of school disengaged with the system. I've also found that schools are having to focus so much on attendance that the child's mental health is not important. More and more children are suffering mentally, but are increasingly unable to access care, CAMHS are subject to cuts, which leads them to deny support to all but the more severe cases, which in turn leads to more children spiralling without support, in schools that want bums on seats at all costs.

School funding cuts lead to loss of TAs, lack of equipment, basic, everyday equipment that were totally taken for granted not that long ago. Disabled children's needs are routinely ignored.
As for grammar schools, if you are wealthy and can afford one to two year's tuition, your child will stand a better chance of going. I happen to believe (having been to a grammar school) that what we need is good comprehensives that benefit everyone, not just those whose parents can afford it.

Brexit - TM has given no indication that she is capable of leading a team through brexit, and if the articles I've read are right, she has done more to alienate herself from Europe and instead has chosen to suck up to Trump. In no way can I see her, or David Davis, being able to lead our country through a Brexit that is anything other than disastrous.

Terrorism - I find Corbyn's ideas a breath of fresh air. The current approach to dealing with things (bomb the fuckers) is creating more terrorists. I literally cannot understand why people think his views make him dangerous.

My current situation (not working, caring for two autistic boys who are currently home educated because school was so traumatic for them), is decidedly vulnerable. It kills me to suspect that the people closest to me will continue to vote conservative, despite the fact that doing so puts us, and millions of others, in a far more vulnerable situation, and I do believe that lots of people are trusting what the media is telling them, rather than taking things at face value and trusting their own judgement (except undoubtedly in many cases, that judgement comes from a place of not understanding why there are vulnerable, poor people, and believing that they deserve it).

I recently read an article that suggested that the Tories are trying to fail in this election, that TM's repeatedly poor performance, refusal to answer even basic questions, throwaway comments about bringing fox hunting back, reversing the ban on ivory trade, are deliberate. They know that there's a very good chance that brexit will destroy the country, and they don't want to be in charge when it happens, even though it was the Tories who blindly led us into this situation in the first place.
No matter who is in charge, it's likely to be a very rough ride, but after the last few years, I wouldn't trust the Tory government to lead a horse, let alone a struggling country.

Topseyt · 03/06/2017 10:43

Good post there, cloud. I feel similarly.

Andrewofgg · 03/06/2017 10:51

If Labour win

Sostenueto · 03/06/2017 10:57

Sorry had to go off for a bit to deal with pressured teen gdd revising for mocks next week throwing giant tantrum. Thank you all for support in my post. I really thought JC did well last night.

Andrewofgg · 03/06/2017 10:57

Sorry.

If Labour win and four years from now things are going badly for them and they are losing by-elections and Council elections - are you 100% sure that they will not bring in a Bill to prolong Parliament?

I don't think Jezza would want to - but some of the people round him, especially the TU barons whose commitment to parliamentary democracy has never been strong, would let the end justify the means and refuse to let go of power.

It's a genuine fear and a risk not worth running.

needmorespace · 03/06/2017 11:07

myusernameisgeneric I cannot condone either of these things. The torys have made too many cuts from the most vulnerable to save themselves and the fat cats. This is not what they promised and right now I don't believe a word they say. How can they say they are or will investing into education when 90% of schools are facing massive budget cuts? It's utter bollocks

But this is exactly what they promised. In the build up to the last election the tories promised £12billion of cuts and wouldn't say where from. And yet people still voted for them Confused. This is exactly what every tory voter voted for

needmorespace · 03/06/2017 11:08

Cloud excellent post

ExplodedCloud · 03/06/2017 11:26

Andrew you''re attempting to whip up fear that a Labour government would do something that nobody has suggested. Don't be so silly.

ahipponamedbooboobutt · 03/06/2017 11:34

If Labour win and four years from now things are going badly for them and they are losing by-elections and Council elections - are you 100% sure that they will not bring in a Bill to prolong Parliament?

And are you sure a conservative government won't do the same? I mean they've done so well at sticking to the 5year fixed term parliaments haven't they?..... Hmm

noblegiraffe · 03/06/2017 11:36

Bill to prolong Parliament?

It wouldn't get through the House of Lords even if it got through parliament.

It's not a genuine fear, it's a silly one.

Killdora · 03/06/2017 11:43

Same here cloud

I realised I was 'knee jerk' voting Tory.

I tuned into the debates expecting to mock and laugh at the weak shambolic Corbyn.

Instead I find myself completely agreeing with him and seeing him for what he really is.

I'll be voting labour.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/06/2017 11:46

He's still weak and shambolic as far as I'm concerned. And still shackled with McConnell and Abbott. I always used to vote Labour but not with him as leader.

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