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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Staunch Tory wavering

311 replies

FuckyDuck · 01/06/2017 07:56

So as title says, I have always been a staunch Tory supporter and I also voted leave in the EU referendum. I genuinely have the utmost faith in TM to deliver brexit to the best of her ability

BUT

the NHS & education...

JC is someone I could never respect but labours approach to the NHS and education seems to be far far better. However I simply cannot abide any of their social policies (my view on this is that EVERYONE who is physically and mentally capable of working, should, no one gets a free ride unless disabled/caring for someone who is)

Now I don't want Tory flaming but I need to decide whether the Tory economical and social policies outweigh Labours NHS plans and education policies. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
Ankleswingers · 02/06/2017 23:41

My sister is a Teacher. She's voting conservative.

DH best friend also a teacher and voting conservative.

mummysmellsofsick · 02/06/2017 23:41

I also agree about people not getting a free ride. But for me the idea of money being given to 'underserving' poor is far less of a concern than money being given in tax breaks to people who already have more money than any human being can ever need. Anyway, it's pretty clear I think you should vote labour. I hope you find an answer you're comfortable with OP either way

WorldsacpeLove · 02/06/2017 23:43

@christinarossetti No, I thought he was shit.

There's a huge difference between making a commitment and keeping it vs. constantly wobbling with your decisions and choice making. TM - I am not turning up as I am doing something else. Doesn't turn up and does something else. - committed to her choices and decision making process.

JC "not going, oh I will go, oh I will leave after twenty minutes and talk about jam for those twenty minutes" - uncommitted.

noblegiraffe · 02/06/2017 23:47

The air of utter despair in my school staffroom in 2015 when the Tories won a majority suggests that Tories didn't have much support from the bunch I work with, quite the opposite.

mummysmellsofsick · 02/06/2017 23:47

Ankleswingers are they teachers in the state sector? Id anyone can link polls of state teachers or NHS workers I'd be happy to see them. Too tired to google right now, and must get off mumsnet. All fired up after QT though! Couldn't believe how many people in that room were hell bent on nuking somewhere Shock and as for the bloody IRA thing surely that is the best evidence that dialogue is an effective method of resolving conflict if it is possible?!! Anyway, as I said, hope you find a decision you are comfortable with OP

christinarossetti · 02/06/2017 23:50

JC didn't mention jam during the leadership debate. It was the One Show.

What other pressing engagement did TM know that she had weeks in advance on a as yet unnanounced date that made her state that she wouldn't be taking part in head to head debates?

She's shit scared of debates because she's so unable to think on her feet, couldn't be bothered to cost her manifesto and knows that she's unpopular.

She was arrogant enough to think that people would vote for her and all she had to do was say 'I'm not JC' and now it's gone horribly wrong for her.

christinarossetti · 02/06/2017 23:54

noble my strongest memory of the day after the 2015 election was being on a train and overhearing a young woman, definitely not more than 30 say, ' I'm so glad that I'm leaving teaching's and she and her partner were looking at the election results.

I was working for a homeless charity that day. The despair and fear in the room were palpable.

WorldsacpeLove · 02/06/2017 23:55

@christinarossetti Jam was mentioned during the Mumsnet chat - that's what I was referring too.

TM has explained what she was going to be doing yesterday; multiple times, publicly.

She has also explained tonight about why she called the vote; it wasn't arrogance.

Domino20 · 02/06/2017 23:55

' committed to her choices and decision making process ' ?

C'MON that's just nonsense.

WorldsacpeLove · 02/06/2017 23:56

@Domino20 No it's not - she said she wasn't turning up, she didn't turn up.

JC, I'm not turning up, oh I'll turn up after a last-minute decision.

JC2, Oh yes, I'll be there for an hour, oh I have to go now (after 20 minutes)

scaryteacher · 02/06/2017 23:59

OP If you are wavering, you are not staunch, by definition.

christinarossetti · 03/06/2017 00:09

Has she? She's said that she was at Downing Street but wouldn't say whether she's watched the debate or not.

Did JC mention jam because he was asked a question about it by any chance?

ExplodedCloud · 03/06/2017 00:13

I have tried and tried to write a coherent post with information but it's too raw right now.
We look like the OP. Doing OK now. Nice house. Two jobs etc. All self made.
We have worked hard and done it ourselves. But we have 2 'hidden' disabilities that leave us very vulnerable. All diagnosed in the last 18 months. Neither of which was in any way foreseeable.
I am frightened.

noblegiraffe · 03/06/2017 00:16

There's some polling data about teacher voting intentions here:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-teachers-vote-shifting-dramatically-towards-labour

christinarossetti · 03/06/2017 00:19

Yes. And that's what's so sickening about May's 'I believe in the British people' speel.

Why sell off their health service, run their schools into the ground, destroy health and social care, and take income from.people with disabilities then?

ExplodedCloud · 03/06/2017 00:28

christina I do at least have a functioning conscience and have voted Labour for 30 years :)

christinarossetti · 03/06/2017 00:38

I hope that they're successful in this election. Too many people are suffering.

ExplodedCloud · 03/06/2017 00:42

People need to realise it isn't the 'others'. It's them.

ahipponamedbooboobutt · 03/06/2017 01:00

I voted Tory in the last election 2 years ago. Think I voted libdem in 2010. Most likely voting labour next weeks. So I'm not loyal to any party. The reasons I am not voting Tory this time:

  1. It does seem very unbalanced. Real term pay cuts to police, nurses, teachers etc yet pay rises in tax cuts to large corporations. And the massive pay rise to mp's. Now I agreed with austerity being important and paying off this deficit but surely all should bear the brunt of that? Not just the low paid public sector workers. It can't be one rule for one and another for someone else. I'm not happy with that policy.
  2. they change their mind on policies. They did bring in a lifetime cap of care of £75000 (ish. I can't remember the exact figure but know it was in the 70k). Brilliant idea. But they've scrapped it and are going on about leaving us with just 100k. I don't like that u-turn. Not that I'm worried about housing cost being part of "generation rent"
  3. brexit. Bloody brexit. Firstly I hate the way the entire campaign is run on brexit as yes it is important but it will be done in 2 years. There will then be another 3 years of this government and their manifesto is so vague they really can do anything they want and no one can object. That concerns me. Plus they won't reveal their priorities in leaving the EU and are prepared to accept no deal. That's a worry.

I just don't feel confident in the party at the moment. It's all too vague and under wraps. Not a lot of transparety and I don't feel comfortable voting for someone when I don't know what I'm voting for.

Good luck in making your decision.

sinensis · 03/06/2017 01:17

Sorry for typos I am not feeling well but really wanted to post.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but people often associate the Tories with supporting the new business and the self-employed. I think this is a myth. The tories do not support the average person on the street at all.

Many recent Tory policies will have a very negative affect on the self employed eg the plans to cut a class of National Insurance that will affect the self employed's ability to qualify for social security benefits like ESA for being off sick, and even the state pension and so make them more vulnerable than the employed, all in the name of simplificiation. The gov have not said what if anything they will do to allow people from being able to pay towards their entitlements as the employed can.

This will make many families very vulnerable and because it is not well publicised, by the time they realise, it could be too late for many. How many self employed can afford private insurance?

Also, the self employed lose out severley under Universal Credit eg pension contributions not being taken into account in the same way the employed contributions are so the SE are worse off in comparison, and also rules regarding calculating cash flow and profit are desinged to make claimants fall foul of claim limits far too easily when they could be earning a moderate income, the rules of cash flow will prodcue an unrepresentative figure. Sorry, I havenlt they energy to explain more cleary but I beg you to look this up if you need to.

These policies attack enterprise and small family/ sole trader businesses and one could argue will serve to drive more people into employed work - who benefits? The shareholders of big business

Ditto the failure to equalise tax revenue between small and big business. Due to loopholes etc small busniesses pay more tax and the majority of the wealth in the country is removed into the hands of a share hokders who grow increasingly wealthy. Look at the rising gap between rich and poor and the huge rise of the top 1%.

I believe money needs to be kept within our own economy - spending not austerity, paying our workers to give social care etc, and making sure the profits of business are reinvested in our economy.

I also believe it is dangerous to allow certain countries to have financial control over our infrastructure eg the chinese owned/ funded nuclear power staitons, and ludicrous that foreign (often state) owned companies making money from our other power generating plants. We are just helping other countires to get richer, while we get poorer.

The Tories are so damagin to the majority of British people - they only care about making the richer richer.

Thank you if you read this..Soory again for typos - I'm not well today! Wish MN had a spellchecker!

sinensis · 03/06/2017 01:56

Sorry for my not very articulate previous post! I am ashemed for my stream of consciousness - blame it on medecine and DH's snoring keeping me awake!

But I just wanted to add that self-employment can be key to many women getting into/ back into work, especially working from home or around kids. Similarly for the unwell/ disabled.

They should be making it easier for people to work and contribute not harder.

HarryElephante · 03/06/2017 07:57

It is the job of Government to make sure that the country runs properly. If you work for the government you know that they are forever doing what-if scenario and contingency planning.
Blair and Brown loosened controls on the financial system (changed the Bank of England's remit, for example) which meant that we were vulnerable to the financial crisis.
Other countries didn't and weren't

Which countries?

user1487175389 · 03/06/2017 07:59

You could never respect Jeremy Corbyn?! Wtf? That's a horrible thing to say. ALL human beings are worthy of respect.

user1487175389 · 03/06/2017 08:07

Erm...

'There's nothing wrong with the top achievers being given a leg up'

'No one should be given a free ride'

How the heck do you square that circle, OP? Or are you just mindlessly regurgitating things you've heard other people say in the past, regardless of how contradictory they are?

SentientCushion · 03/06/2017 08:36

I agree Sinesis Tory policy has been rubbish for my micro business. Yes they cut corporation tax but they've also reduced the tax free dividend threshold from
£5000 to £3000 this even with the corporation tax cut it has left me worse off.

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