Staunch Tory wavering

[FuckyDuck]

So as title says, I have always been a staunch Tory supporter and I also voted leave in the EU referendum. I genuinely have the utmost faith in TM to deliver brexit to the best of her ability

BUT

the NHS & education...

JC is someone I could never respect but labours approach to the NHS and education seems to be far far better. However I simply cannot abide any of their social policies (my view on this is that EVERYONE who is physically and mentally capable of working, should, no one gets a free ride unless disabled/caring for someone who is)

Now I don't want Tory flaming but I need to decide whether the Tory economical and social policies outweigh Labours NHS plans and education policies. Can anyone help?

@April229 The debt has increased under Tories because it's constantly compounding in faster rate than it can be reduced, while they try to maintain as much as possible of basic rights and policies demanded by people. It's a harrowing act. Meanwhile, the population has increased by 3 million more people since the Tories came into power due to its EU membership. The security budget has to be almost doubled each year for the same reason... NHS budget was £89bn in 2011/12, and has increased in 2013/14 to £112 billion, and £116.4 billion in 2015/16 because of the massive and rapid increase in population and health tourism.
It would be complete insanity to vote Labour under such circumstances.

SW10 If you look beyond the Tories meaningless platitudes and smear campaign, you might find the magic money tree. Clue: it's off shore.

You might also find a man who stands by his convictions for social justice. On your way you might also discover a woman who stands for nothing but fox hunting, ivory trading, fracking and kissing ass for her own self-interest.

mayhem

SW10 If you look beyond the Tories meaningless platitudes and smear campaign, you might find the magic money tree. Clue: it's off shore.

This.

I am late to the argument but I am voting Labour. I have never voted Tory or Labour before but when I look at the issues important to me I can not face another 4 years of Tory leadership so my vote will be tactical.
The Tories have decimated our education system. If I had the opportunity to home ed then I would as it makes me sad that my children are going through this system.
I don't know enough about economics but I do know that if we don't invest in the future of our young people then we are fucked anyway. Surely if we live in a society where everyone is valued then the "workforce" is much happier and the country more productive in the long term.

It's about time Labour scrapped tuition fees, as it was they who introduced them in the first place.

To be absolutely accurate, jupitar, I stopped voting labour when its leadership starting sounding as dim, unrealistic and blinkered as the bulk of its supporters.
Neither have improved since

Remember Nick Clegg, promises promises promise on 'end to tuition fees'? Into government, 'there is no money', reality hit and tuition frees go up.

What people fail to remember was that nick clegg was not prime minister. He did not rule the majority party. Lib dems did not win the election and therefore their manifesto was not something they could implement. They were a very small party that agreed to support a much much bigger party to keep out the opposition. The lib dems did not hold power.

I really wish people would stop holding this against Nick Clegg and the LibDems

Sw10 - compounding is not quite what you mean - the debt increases when there is a deficit - through the Osborne years the annual defecit was at the 70bn level up and down - despite austerity - it dropped when Hammond came in possibly because austerity was relaxed.

However it has remained a defecit hence the debt has grown - throughout the labour years the defecit was positive and negative resulting in a small increase in debt in the 2years prior to the global crash

What is clear from the numbers is that the Blair Brown years were a period of economic stability - the years from the crash to date have been chaotic despite austerity - or I'd argue because of austerity.

The conservatives talked us into a deeper recession than necessary in order to blame labour then brought in a bunch of idealistic policies that hammered the less well off whilst failing to address the defecit.

Nick Clegg voted for the tripling of student fees with the Conservatives because he wanted them to agree to a referendum on AV (Alternative voting system). Clegg had a choice and he chose to advance his own party interests. The irony is he lost the referendum vote and ended up helping to saddle generations of students with massive debts. Other libdem MPs including Charles Kennedy and Menzies Campbell voted against the fees.

Also if Scottish students are moaning about losing free Scottish university places to fee paying English ones remember it was Scottish MPs who should have abstain from voting for the bill as it didn't affect their Scottish students whose votes helped the introduction of fees in England

I work in the NHS and from what I can see on a weekly basis it is failing people right left and centre directly due to underfunding. Not the managers. Oh no. We have got those coming out of our ears. Its awful. I dont think labour could turn it around overnight but I dont think TM is interested in trying. we really need less managers and more people doing the actual work. Ive worked in the NHS for 30 years and have always enjoyed it but right now I just wish I could get out. Sadly I dont think my skills will easily transfer elsewhere. Most of my colleagues feel the same. Im aware that people are saying the same about education. Also I have more faith in JC to tackle the housing crisis and the disgrace that is zero hours contracts. I know of a company that calls workers in, tells them to wait for a couple of hours and then can and does send them home without paying them a penny. Cant see TM tackling this. And dont get me started on homelessness.

The problem with Labours plan to tax the top 5% of earners more is these are precisely the people who can quickly move to other countries/employ fancy accountants in order to shield their wealth which is what happened in France when Hollande increased taxes. Then we will be left with lower tax receipts and the only way of making up the difference is to increase the tax of the people who can't bugger off i.e the middle and lower earners.

If labour can't then fulfil its election promises of pension triple lock, pay rises, free university tuition, social care etc etc then there will be strikes, power cuts and social unrest as in the 70s.

Don't be ridiculous. Lots of high earners are happy to pay higher tax for better public services. Most of the increased tax will be paid by corporations whose tax bill will be in line with their 2010 one, and still lower than if they were in most other countries.

Unions have nowhere near the power they had in the 1970s; it's laughable to even compare them.

Don't be ridiculous. Lots of high earners are happy to pay higher tax for better public services

I'm not. I have no faith whatsoever my taxes would result in better public services.

The Conservatives' main pitch for this election is that we should vote for them because a "strong and stable" May would be so much better than Corbyn to represent us in the negotiations.

But the sort of brittle inflexibility that seems to pass for "strength" in May is the last thing we need in someone negotiating on our behalf. Building rapport, finding common ground with just about anyone seems much more Corbyn's forte, for all his faults (indeed many would say that at times his willingness to do so with the wrong people has been his worst trait).

Personalities aside, Corbyn would walk into negotiations with the enormous advantage of not being Teresa May. If this were a business deal being negotiated and your negotiator had already got the other side's backs up as much as May has, pulling her out and sending someone else would be an obvious move. At least somebody else could start building rapport by acknowledging that the last person was a bit shit!

Obviously I have limited experience of international negotiations, but this guy at least seems to agree....

www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/the-art-of-negotiation/

Corbyns manifesto is good but he can't pay for it. There is no basis on it. Even Abbott couldn't say how she would pay for 10,000 police - yeah, that would cost £80k, no 800k..... she didn't have a clue... not a sodding clue on basic figures. Abbott as Home Secretary -no way. She behaves as though she's permanently drunk.

Plus I don't want IRA sympathisers leading the government..... we need to protect our country and Corbyn does not want Trident. Events like last night will be more frequent.

Not rtft but I will once I've posted my initial thoughts.
EVERYONE who is physically and mentally capable of working, should, no one gets a free ride unless disabled/caring for someone who is
I don't know any labour supporters who wouldn't agree with you here. Labour aren't looking to fice benefits to just anyone.

under DC and TM, more people are in work, less people claiming benefits,
This isn't actually the case unless you count zero hour contracts which are the work of the devil and make the unemployment figures look better than they are.

Plus I don't want IRA sympathisers leading the government
Cant believe anyone is still trotting this out. He has spoken out many times against the violence on both sides in NI. Unlike TM who hasnt beem challenged on her relationships with dodgy terrorists.

we need to protect our country and Corbyn does not want Trident. Events like last night will be more frequent
How would Trident stop events like last night? Because we currently have Trident and it doesn't seem to have stopped anything.

The education thing is putting TM in a bad light but to be fair it is a redistribution of the cash. Our LA is getting more than before and 80% of the schools are getting more than before. Our school will have 10 kids less but is £15k up!?
According to money week magazine UK spends more on debt interest than education. So personally I cannot vote for anyone who is not focused on debt reduction. If we don't get a grip on spending we are leaving our children in a very poor state.

personally I cannot vote for anyone who is not focused on debt reduction.
I really don't want to appear patronising but you DO know the debt has increased phenomenally under the Tories, don't you?

Corbuyn was an appeaser vis-a-vis the IRA and is an appeaser vis-a-vis Hamas.

I voted Tory for a while but won't this time. Local MP (Tory) annoys me and can't bring myself to vote for them.

Labour's plan to reinstate corporation tax to 2010 levels in order to fund decent public services, rather than increasing debt with nothing to show for it for the vast majority of people must be very appealing to you then.

Corbuyn was an appeaser vis-a-vis the IRA and is an appeaser vis-a-vis Hamas.
Corbyn has spoken out on these many times. Unlike May and the issue of Tories funding Saudi or indeed North Korea.

christinarosetti the top 5% including corporations pay 47% of the tax collected in the U.K. They have been targeted by Labour because Labour will not get their votes so believe it's no loss to them to try to squeeze more out of them. Since many of them also have private healthcare and use private education they have little interest in the fate of these institutions. I doubt they will be happy to be asked to pay more tax and the reality is many will leave for HongKong, Singapore, Geneva, Dublin and other lower tax countries in order to protect their wealth.

Labour is basing their big public spending policy on the assumption these individuals and companies will sit tight in the UK and just pay up but as Jeremy Corbyn has never had a job outside of being an MP that is what he will think.