Neighbours kid!

[MissBax]

Right, I've just stormed downstairs to the flat below ours and screamed at them after 3 years of them being a total nightmare culminating in one foul-mouthed fury!
They have two children (son 5 and daughter 7).
They have NO routine - the children seem to be allowed to run riot in the flat no matter what time it is - 6am or 1am! They never seem to take the children out, when the sun is shining they shove them on the balcony where the kids then scream and shout constantly (i don't mean general children playing noise by the way - I mean FULL ON screeching and screaming). They don't discipline the son AT ALL - I've watched him throw food all over the communal areas of the building whilst the mum simply walks on. Or when he is screaming she just quietly goes "shh shh" to which he just yells and screeches over.
The mum takes them out at about 9pm at night and returns at 1am - just now they arrived home, kids shouting and screaming in the communal stairway for everyone to hear. They then slam doors downstairs, shouting and screaming commences. It has been like this for 3 YEARS!!!
We have spoken to their landlord - says he doesn't have any reason to take matters further which is fair enough (i suppose).
In the first year I actually befriended the mum and felt very sorry for her - she is clearly struggling to discipline and parent her own children. Dad seems useless by all accounts. I tried asking politely that they keep their windows and doors shut if the kids are screaming as their windows are only a matter of feet from ours and the sound travels so easily. They said they would. They don't!!
It's been so warm that I have to sleep with windows open but they are so loud it just wakes us up.
My OH went down around a year ago and had a more stern word about how it wasn't acceptable anymore and something has to change - we then had a visit from their Health Visitor stating that they'd complained that WE were harassing THEM!!! We were gobsmacked and explained that we actually have concerns that they aren't managing very well and that we constantly hear screaming and banging from the flat. -Just to give some context - we never hear anything from any other flat above us or to either side-
The HV seemed to understand and asked us to call if we have any other worries, which I have done a couple of time over the last 6 months - she doesn't put seatbelts on her kids when in the car for example, amongst other things.
Anyway - they came home tonight banging and screaming away at 1am as always and I just saw red. I went down and made it clear that I was at breaking point and that they were making my life hell. And low ad behold - not a peep out of them now - so they CAN shut the kids up when needed. So why don't they do this anyway when it's 1am and people around them are sleeping?!?!
I guess I was going to ask AIBU but after reading it back I don't think I am.
What I would like to ask though is what the hell can I do?? I don't think the children are being abused so can't exactly contact SS, the HV can't do a great deal either and they aren't breaking any laws (are they?!)
Moving isn't an option for us for another 18 months - 2years. But I can't live like this anymore?!?!

windy - I haven't claimed to know every single coming and going and whether they have visitors. Someone asked me and I said they never SEEM to have visitors. Obviously any of my comments are only based on when me or OH are home, and what we're aware of. I didn't think I'd have to state that.

So you think the health visitor is not doing her job? - yes because that exactly what I said
😑

I agree with Fanjo that some of what you have said (the noise and park comments in particular) indicates you know little about autism and learning disabilities.
Concerns about the family needing more support I would agree with.

I have never stated I know anything about autism. You also don't know that he has autism either.

So we don't know these children have SEN. If OP reports all this to SS, then the family may get more support. If there are SEN, those investigating will take it into account. If there are not, then other types of support may be offered.

Reporting is never wrong. Never. Failing to report now...

I'm wondering why the school hasn't noticed? The children must be very tired if keeping such late hours. Does this lack of routine only occur weekends and holidays?

I have had an open mind for THREE YEARS. I feel I need to stress this as people are acting as though one thing has happened and I'm shouting that they're abusing they children! I have always tried to accept that people live differently and not to make assumptions, but when putting all of the information down to context I have decided it's probably not acceptable. To make jibes about my career and being surprised by things I've said is just odd.

windy - I imagine they will have noticed, but wouldn't know as they can't share information with me. I've filled in an online NSPCC concerns form anyway so presumably they'd be able to access school and HV notes when they look into it.

OP you have said you said worked with mental health and learning disabilities. It would be natural to assume this included autism.

This was in elderly adults, not children. This also isn't my job now and I'm not claiming to be an expert in that field. I was just trying to give a bit of background to explain that I'm not acting rash by being concerned. There are many different degrees of autism - one of my friends sons is autistic and doesn't act like the kids downstairs, which is why I can't assume either way.

You can call the police and social services for not strapping them into the car properly, that's illegal and child endangerment.

The kids are being deprived of sleep, they have no routine, they're placed in danger unrestrained in the car, they're always upset and distressed... That needs to be investigated further. Call social services.

They are Muslim but I didn't want to put that in my original post as it wasn't relevant

It's totally relevant. Everything you said about them struck a chord with me and I knew as soon as I read your OP they were going to be a (probably first generation immigrant) Muslim family.

I was scrolling down the thread to see how long it took for that info to come out. I've lived in an Arab country long enough to recognise certain behaviours as completely and utterly normal among certain cultures and nationalities. Of course this is a cultural thing rather than just a Muslim thing.

Even down to the child throwing food around and the mother ignoring it, and the half hearted 'shush' to their screeching. Completely brattish behaviour from the boy children is like water off a ducks back. No seatbealts, check. Letting the small child wander around unsupervised near moving cars, check. All very normal where I live.

And the reason she probably doesnt take the children out much is that she's probably not allowed or encouraged to leave the house unless the DH is with her., or at least a family chaperone. Also perfectly normal to stay indoors a great deal during the day they drag your toddlers out to a shopping mall or to visit relatives until midnight or later on a week night.

Every single thing that's been described here that is flagging up possible neglect or abuse to some of you wouldn't pass muster where I live.

If the child's constant screaming is down to autism or some other a SN then there may be some cultural resistance to the idea of LDs. The child is made that way due to Gods will and they just work around it without seeking a diagnosis, in fact they will often be quite indignant if you suggest they might like to seek one, and if teachers etc can't cope then that's a failing in them, not an issue with the child.

Your flat sounds poorly insulated and you don't sound very nice, but that's because I am seeing it as if she works shifts etc and the children are with a relative and she has to collect them at that time and bring them home. Noise is inevitable with children. I'm sure she does take them out sometimes. Siblings can be particularly noisy together. Yes she may need more support but your attitude sounds incredibly unsupportive.

Disclaimer haven't RTFT

Fanjo I'm not sure I understand where you are going with your posts?

Yes, this boy hmm au have autism or any number or disabilities.

But whatever the cause of his behaviour this family need support. The mum (parents) cannot get him from the car and a child not old enough to yet have road sense and judge the speed of cars is having to take responsibility.

The children are being shut out in a balcony because of their noise/behaviour/ parents not coping. Again - whatever the cause of this behaviour the parents obviously aren't coping.

The children are being taken out at night for some reason and being deprived or a good nights sleep. Again - whatever the reason this isn't conducive to healthy well being.

Whether this lad has some SN or not the family need support.

We are very lucky in this country to have a care system and that's what it's there for. Are you honestly saying that if a SW offered you a career for a few hours to help you get your DD to the park or a nights respite to sleep without the screaming you'd turn it down due to your DD autism being the cause.

Because I can tell you as the parent of a child with autism I was gutted when someone (in my knowledge) made a referral to SS and they showed not a jot of interest because I was deemed to be managing.

Yes I manage - but it's bloody hard work. This family clearly aren't managing. They deserve some help and support.

leghoul - as you haven't read further baxk you wouldn't have seen where I've stated that the husband is AT HOME when she takes the kids oit and she speaks almost no English so I highly doubt she's going to work. Infact I KNOW she isn't. When I befriended her years ago she told me she doesn't.
LaLegue - Yeah everything you've said I had considered, but didn't want to mention their religion or culture as I didn't want anyone to ignore the facts and brush it off as cultural differences, as a PP had said.

How is the OP being unsupportive if she has put up with this for 3 years and has only just broken?! Personally I wouldn't let this go on for 3 weeks - OP has a right to sleep in her own home.
Imagine the post was from the other perspective:
"My children have been running riot, screaming and banging doors until 1am in the morning for the last 3 years, and my annoying, pregnant neighbour has just had the bloody cheek to knock on our door to ask us to keep it down. AIBU to think she should just suck it up as we are entitled to act how we please?"

Some people are here are ridiculous. Or haven't read the OPs post and replies properly.

Regardless of any safeguarding issues, the OP has a right to be upset about the situation. But, regarding safeguarding, it does seem likely that there are potential issues because of what the HV has said.

I think the tone of the initial post is the problem.