Neighbours kid!

[MissBax]

Right, I've just stormed downstairs to the flat below ours and screamed at them after 3 years of them being a total nightmare culminating in one foul-mouthed fury!
They have two children (son 5 and daughter 7).
They have NO routine - the children seem to be allowed to run riot in the flat no matter what time it is - 6am or 1am! They never seem to take the children out, when the sun is shining they shove them on the balcony where the kids then scream and shout constantly (i don't mean general children playing noise by the way - I mean FULL ON screeching and screaming). They don't discipline the son AT ALL - I've watched him throw food all over the communal areas of the building whilst the mum simply walks on. Or when he is screaming she just quietly goes "shh shh" to which he just yells and screeches over.
The mum takes them out at about 9pm at night and returns at 1am - just now they arrived home, kids shouting and screaming in the communal stairway for everyone to hear. They then slam doors downstairs, shouting and screaming commences. It has been like this for 3 YEARS!!!
We have spoken to their landlord - says he doesn't have any reason to take matters further which is fair enough (i suppose).
In the first year I actually befriended the mum and felt very sorry for her - she is clearly struggling to discipline and parent her own children. Dad seems useless by all accounts. I tried asking politely that they keep their windows and doors shut if the kids are screaming as their windows are only a matter of feet from ours and the sound travels so easily. They said they would. They don't!!
It's been so warm that I have to sleep with windows open but they are so loud it just wakes us up.
My OH went down around a year ago and had a more stern word about how it wasn't acceptable anymore and something has to change - we then had a visit from their Health Visitor stating that they'd complained that WE were harassing THEM!!! We were gobsmacked and explained that we actually have concerns that they aren't managing very well and that we constantly hear screaming and banging from the flat. -Just to give some context - we never hear anything from any other flat above us or to either side-
The HV seemed to understand and asked us to call if we have any other worries, which I have done a couple of time over the last 6 months - she doesn't put seatbelts on her kids when in the car for example, amongst other things.
Anyway - they came home tonight banging and screaming away at 1am as always and I just saw red. I went down and made it clear that I was at breaking point and that they were making my life hell. And low ad behold - not a peep out of them now - so they CAN shut the kids up when needed. So why don't they do this anyway when it's 1am and people around them are sleeping?!?!
I guess I was going to ask AIBU but after reading it back I don't think I am.
What I would like to ask though is what the hell can I do?? I don't think the children are being abused so can't exactly contact SS, the HV can't do a great deal either and they aren't breaking any laws (are they?!)
Moving isn't an option for us for another 18 months - 2years. But I can't live like this anymore?!?!

Hmm. One of those threads where you know there will be a very different opposing account.
If the mum is leaving and returning with the children regularly at those times they are clearly in childcare while she does shift work. Not ideal that their sleep is interrupted but what do you actually think she's doing at those times? Taking them for play dates??? I also think that yabu to expect them to shut their windows when it is too hot for you to shut yours. Surely if the noise was as awful as you say you'd shut your windows and get a fan.
Record the noise and if it is louder than is legally allowed pursue it legally. But the threshold is high and normal kid noise (even tantrums) are unlikely to meet it.

TheRealPoo - she doesn't work, the husband is still in the apartment and she speaks very little English.
I don't think it's unreasonable when THEIR KIDS ARE SCREAMING to expect that they would want to reduce the noise to their neighbours and keep windows shut. Why should they stand on a balcony shouting and screaming when they live in a built up area? It is not normal.

Keep reporting them (I'm actually wondering why you've waited 3 years) to the council for the noise and social services for suspected abuse. Record the screaming from inside your flat for evidence. Keep a log. Even if it does not qualify as noise pollution and child abuse, it is bound to result in a few unpleasant visits from authorities and maybe they will keep the kids quieter just to avoid any more of those.

Fanjo - I totally accept that, but I'm sure you do all you can to maintain a calm environment for your DD. Do you take her out till 1am? Have no days out of the house ? No bedtime? No toys or stimulation?

This may be totally off, but are they Muslim? I only ask because it's Ramadan at the moment - they may be going to family and friends house to break their fast when the sun goes down, it's called Iftar. It's like a big party, I could easily see it going on to around 1am.
Obviously if it's been going on for weeks, and not just started this weekend, that can't be it.

Some kids are like that. Some parents don't think discipline and routine are that important.

No toys is really weird and another red flag. As is instantly complaining that it's all the fault of horrible neighbours harrassing them - most parents would be worried about how much noise their kids make at 1am or at least wonder if the neighbours had a point. Mum being unsupported and one child having some sort of special needs would be other risk factors.

Try keeping a log of absolutely everything you notice and keep in touch with the health visitor.

I think they need help and support to move to a house with a garden. It sounds very likely that one or both children has SEN.
Not sure if thereis anything doable or accessible for them in terms of social housing but that would be IMO the best way forward.
For you OP perhaps good ear plugs (you can get some nice and unexpensive ones on Amazon) and/or noise cancelling headphones.
For your baby, usually the 2 first weeks babies are a bit oblivious to any noise. They tend to really become aware around 3-4 months (first sleep regression) but if you get a good sleeper he might just gt used to the noise (am crossing fingers for you there).

The family next door to me are like this too.
They go out at all hours. The whole family will get into the car at 2am and go off for a few hours.
No idea where they go or why. When the youngest was about 9 I could hear her running about the place at all hours.
I know the youngest well and she is not autistic. She just lives in a very unstable household.

They are Muslim but i didn't want to put that in my original post as it wasn't relevant. When I spoke to a friend about it recently she suggested Iftar to break their fast too but it has been going on for years (really!).
We've just filled in a report about it and actually when I write it down I see how bad it actually is and a bit ashamed I've not done something earlier. One thing I didn't mention in my OP is that the mum often leaves him in the car or sat in the communal car park when he is screaming and we often watch the 7 year old daughter trying to get him in the apartment whilst cars are trying to park!!!
I understand that with certain SEN he may not respond to certain things, toys etc. But honestly I'm not sure it's as simple as that.
My MIL is a pediatric consultant and OH works with children in a healthcare capacity and they both think there's problems here. The mum is clearly struggling and I think they need additional support if nothing else.

Also, I think the health visitor who (rightly) gave you a dressing down, probably knows more about the signs of Neglect and abuse than you do, OP. She'll also have thorough training in when to make a children's services referral. Don't be so flipping judgey. Some kids are just bloody loud.

chocolateteapot - my thoughts are also that they need a house with garden. It's not an appropriate place to live with two children. Neither parent works so I'd be surprised if it was privately rented, unless in receipt of DSS. Im sure they could move? We are expecting a child soon and will be moving as soon as we can in a couple of years. But two children who need space to run around and be kids? It's just not the right place!

user - the HV didn't give us a dressing down at all. She knocked on our door and said she had been told that she had been told we're harassing them (don't know how asking if they could shut their balcony doors when kids screeching is harassment). When we said all of the above her exact words were "ahhh that paints a very different picture and makes more sense to me. Here is my number, I won't be able to discuss anything but please let me know if there is anything else you're concerned about".
When I called she said, and I quote "I'm glad you reported these concerns and although I cant say anything, I have no issue with you contacting SS".
Tell me again how I'm being judgey?

Aside from babies waking for a feed, very few kids are loud in the early hours of the morning.

I find it unusual that a HV would knock on a client's neighbour's door tbh. I doubt she was doing it do bollock the op - more likely she was after a bit of additional info on the family.

With everything you describe, I would put in a call to Social Services

The HV wants you to contact social services op.

User the OP didn't say at all the HV gave her a dressing down the opposite in fact, she said she seemed understanding and told her to continue to report her concerns? The fact that they even have an HV with school age children suggets there are already safeguarding measures of some kind in place, but they cant always act so abruptly.

Having genuine concerns about children's welfare i's hardly the same as being "flipping judgey" and if you have read the OP and genuinely think there's no issue's then you sound very off to me too

Sorry crows posted with the OP.

Computer

Yes, I agree she does. Because she has concerns which she hasn't enough evidence to support, because she's not there very much. So do what she asks, OP

I think you're right computer. I actually do feel pretty stupid I've not done this sooner. I think a part of me thought - is she just saying that as she can't discuss it with me?
It'll be the first thing I do tomorrow morning as I doubt they're open on a bank holiday.

*"Some kids are just bloody loud"
*
Yes they are. But this isn't an isolated incident of loud noise - this is a whole catalogue of events that indicate a family who are not managing. They need support.

Even if the child has some SN - which sounds likely and would explain why the HV is still involved - some support still needs providing as clearly right now the family are under immense pressure and are not managing.

I'm wondering if mum takes the kids out during that time for the dad to get some sleep because he works?