Neighbours kid!

[MissBax]

Right, I've just stormed downstairs to the flat below ours and screamed at them after 3 years of them being a total nightmare culminating in one foul-mouthed fury!
They have two children (son 5 and daughter 7).
They have NO routine - the children seem to be allowed to run riot in the flat no matter what time it is - 6am or 1am! They never seem to take the children out, when the sun is shining they shove them on the balcony where the kids then scream and shout constantly (i don't mean general children playing noise by the way - I mean FULL ON screeching and screaming). They don't discipline the son AT ALL - I've watched him throw food all over the communal areas of the building whilst the mum simply walks on. Or when he is screaming she just quietly goes "shh shh" to which he just yells and screeches over.
The mum takes them out at about 9pm at night and returns at 1am - just now they arrived home, kids shouting and screaming in the communal stairway for everyone to hear. They then slam doors downstairs, shouting and screaming commences. It has been like this for 3 YEARS!!!
We have spoken to their landlord - says he doesn't have any reason to take matters further which is fair enough (i suppose).
In the first year I actually befriended the mum and felt very sorry for her - she is clearly struggling to discipline and parent her own children. Dad seems useless by all accounts. I tried asking politely that they keep their windows and doors shut if the kids are screaming as their windows are only a matter of feet from ours and the sound travels so easily. They said they would. They don't!!
It's been so warm that I have to sleep with windows open but they are so loud it just wakes us up.
My OH went down around a year ago and had a more stern word about how it wasn't acceptable anymore and something has to change - we then had a visit from their Health Visitor stating that they'd complained that WE were harassing THEM!!! We were gobsmacked and explained that we actually have concerns that they aren't managing very well and that we constantly hear screaming and banging from the flat. -Just to give some context - we never hear anything from any other flat above us or to either side-
The HV seemed to understand and asked us to call if we have any other worries, which I have done a couple of time over the last 6 months - she doesn't put seatbelts on her kids when in the car for example, amongst other things.
Anyway - they came home tonight banging and screaming away at 1am as always and I just saw red. I went down and made it clear that I was at breaking point and that they were making my life hell. And low ad behold - not a peep out of them now - so they CAN shut the kids up when needed. So why don't they do this anyway when it's 1am and people around them are sleeping?!?!
I guess I was going to ask AIBU but after reading it back I don't think I am.
What I would like to ask though is what the hell can I do?? I don't think the children are being abused so can't exactly contact SS, the HV can't do a great deal either and they aren't breaking any laws (are they?!)
Moving isn't an option for us for another 18 months - 2years. But I can't live like this anymore?!?!

Thanks for all the responses in helping me realise just how much of a worry it really is. I'll be sure to keep you updated

I work professionally with families from different cultures. This is a family who is struggling and you do need to let the services know. Support for them may improve the children's lives. However lots of family contact, lack of routine and bedtime and lack of knowledge about play and the importance of toys are all quite usual, in my experience. You have made contact with the HV, it seems this family are on the radar. Express your concerns to the NSPCC. I would also say, don't accept 'cultural difference' as a reason for this to be acceptable to those working with the family.

I would be very surprised if these kids were NT. 5- and 7-year-old kids don't screech for hours on end at 1am in the absence of abuse, surely?

MissBax I think the HV was trying to build up more info to get a clear picture about what is happening in the children's lives - and yes her final comment sounds like she actively wants you to report to SS as the more people reporting, the more energy their case will attract.

You have quite a list now of them not being able to meet their children's needs:

No competent supervision - screaming til 1am including during school times, mum leaving child alone in carpark, 7 yr old having to supervise younger child, left alone on balcony
Not attending to safety - lack of child seats/seatbelts
Not meeting emotional needs - no toys, 7 yr old supervising younger child, no bed time
Lack of insight - think you are the problem, not them
Risks - isolated mum, child with minimal language

Op if they are privately renting and in receipt of housing benefit then it's not as easy as you think to move.
Lots of landlords won't accept families/housing benefit, if you're lucky
Enough to find a house they get snapped up very quickly and are usually through agencies that add extra charges.
I speak as someone with 2 dc who would love a house with a garden!

But they do sound like they need some additional support maybe contact SS so that they can at least provide them that

Re the HV visiting - the youngest may have still been under the HV as a pre-schooler if it happened over a year ago.

Miss Bax, I'm glad you are reporting. Not a nice position to be in ☹️
but you could be saving some children from possible abuse.

It sounds like they have a lot of problems, particularly if the parents don't speak good English they might find it very difficult to access help and support. I would contact ss and also the school. The children are unlikely to thrive at school if they are exhausted and also potentially have other needs as well. If the school are made aware that their home lives are chaotic they might be in a position to help the family get the right support.

Also, I think the health visitor who (rightly) gave you a dressing down, probably knows more about the signs of Neglect and abuse than you do, OP. She'll also have thorough training in when to make a children's services referral. Don't be so flipping judgey. Some kids are just bloody loud

User are you one of those posters who just make up stuff that the OP hasnt said etc because no matter what the OP says you just have to say they are being unreasonable? Noise is a well recognised nuisance by council departments and should be deal with as such.

Thanks all - once me and OH wrote everything down this morning we realised how many different issues there are. It was only when looked at on paper that I realised if I heard someone else say all those things I'd be concerned.

I'd call SS. To try and get some the mum some support or help. I have two kids with autism. My youngest doesn't speak or sleep (dc is 4) but we do try and keep a routine here and minimise screaming. Some we can't help though. But there's no excuse for no seat belts in the car though.

I disagree they ARE being neglectful

1. not strapping them into a car means they are putting the kids at a huge risk in the event of an accident.

1. Preventing them from getting enough sleep is harmful

I think this does need reporting to SS

Well done for recognising an issue OP - remember if there is no issue, you reporting this will do no harm, however if there are issues (which to me there very clearly are) this family and more importantly the children will get help and support to hopefully put things right.

I agree that you should report - you can call NSPCC or local authority duty safeguarding (social work) line - someone should be on duty 24/7. What you have reported constitutes neglect. You are not in an easy position but my view on this kind of thing is that we all have a duty to advocate for children when they cannot do this themselves, and there seems to be a risk to them in what has been observed. In so many child protection cases things only become clear when various bits of the puzzle are put together - and some of these are the reports from people in the community.

Don't be so flipping judgey. Some kids are just bloody loud.

There is being judgey and there is being concerned about a child's welfare.
There is a child being loud and there is a child left to scream.
There is a child struggling to sleep and there is a child being dragged off to goodness knows where and becoming sleep deprived.

They are two different things, it is hard to know the difference at times. However the OP isn't judging the parenting of a random person in a supermarket and judging them on a child having a tantrum. She has seen sustained problems and has witnessed them 24/7.

Maybe she is driving the kids around trying to get them to sleep to reduce the disturbance to you if they generally yell at bedtime? No doubt you'd be complaining if they were in the flat making noise so they can't win really can they?

I agree with other posters who have said there may be sn (persistent screaming and banging and not being able to take the children out to play is quite usual with some sn) but I think it is reasonable to ring social services on the basis the family need more support.

TheRealPoo - I can understand your reasoning for that. But it doesn't necessarily relate to when they're screaming. Sometimes there's no noise from their apartment and then off out they go and come back full of energy and running around at 1am.
I really am not being judgey - if I was I would have reported this at the first instance of noise. This has been consistent for the last three years! And I actually don't judge the mum or dad, on the contrary I think they need help and support and WANT them to get that.

The taking the children out at night could be to do with working at night.

Given the bigger picture, I would report to SS . It sounds as though the family do need extra help.

I'm glad you are going to speak to Social Services OP, too many people shy away from doing so for fear of being judged. Whether one or both of the children has special needs or not it doesn't sound like the family are coping.

From what you've told us I think you'd be doing the right thing to mention your concerns, OP. They do sound like they might benefit from additional support.

Did someone just suggest that a flat without a garden is no place for children and that they need a house with a garden instead? Ha! This country needs a awful lot more houses with gardens then. I wonder what the council would make of that request.

It sounds like a very odd set up op. Who knows what's going on but probably a mix of lack of support combined with Sen or just really poor parenting. Lots of Muslims don't have much in the way of toys and children's stuff in the house as they don't seem to see the importance of it, same goes for children's books unfortunately. Why don't you call her back for more advice? And yes, it sounds like she wanted you to call some sort of child protection service. Do they ever have any visitors?

Yes I'm not gonna lie - when they don't seem to show any consideration for their neighbours, it enrages me. I've not slept well the last few nights - 6 months pregnant and struggling in the heat. Then to hear them arrive home because they're slamming doors and the kids are screaming of course I was angry.
But I'm not judging them as in I don't think - they must be abusing their child.
I DO think they aren't coping and need help though, but I can also think they're quite rude for not considering other people around them at 1am!!