MIL.... AGAIN. PLEASE HELP.

[mumblebees]

PLEASE READ, THANK YOU SO MUCH

I've been having problems with my MIL for around a year now, it all started when I, for the first time in almost 7 years, turned around and said 'no' to her she lives almost 100miles away (I don't drive either) and kept going on and on and on and on about having my DD who is only 4 overnight for days on end. I politely kept putting her off but she kept going behind my back to my DH when I wasn't in and convincing him to basically make me change my mind. Caused a lot of grief between me & DH and finally I text her asking her politely to stop asking as it wasn't going to happen and to not go behind my back etc.

Many things have happened since, interfering, ridiculous amounts of FaceTime calls per week to DD on DH's phone, name calling to me over the phone (two faced cow, bad mother, bad wife, controlling, silly child....) because I've said 'no' and started being more assertive. It all hit a head again over Easter because she was asking what to get DD for Easter. I said an egg, just like everybody else, after all, when did Easter become about iPads and the like?! She got huffy and waned to spoil her (as usual and which we don't agree with as we want to bring DD up to be grateful and count her blessings).

I'm sure she does this to look 'better' than us as we can't afford named brands etc (not that I'd spend crazy money like that anyway). She always goes ridiculous for Christmas/Birthdays etc... making us look bad and her like 'the one that will get DD anything she ever wants' (sure this is deliberate ) anyway, I said no, just get an egg like all the other children in her school will be getting, a few days later we get a package full of clothes after me repeatedly saying just an egg will be fine. I contacted her about it and she said 'she will buy DD whatever she wants and won't be dictated to by me, a silly child' (I'm 21, studying for a degree with a PT job, training and a small buisness for goodness sake!) I said well I'm her mother and I'm afraid what I say goes but she wasn't having any of it it's almost like she thinks DD is hers IYSWIM?

When she calls she's not bothered about speaking to DH, just says 'where's my baby'?! I'm sick and tired of it and don't know what to do. DH has only just started backing me up, before he was to afraid to upset her it seemed, she's quite manipulative with him but I was getting really hurt in the process she also says things to DD on the phone so she'll pester me for things or to go somewhere. Like at Christmas I overheard whispering in a separate room asking DD whether 'she'd like to stay longer and if so, she'll have to ask mummy'. Clearly done secretly and not expecting to be heard.

She's due here on Wednesday and I really don't want her to come if I'm to be honest, I know she'll play mind games and do the things I ask her not to do (like take DD to the shop and not just buy her one or two things but the whole frickin' shop or want to go somewhere extravagant which again makes us look bad as we don't drive so can't really get to many extravagant places but we do do other things like country park outings, wood walks, parks, swimming etc...)

This is just a snippet of what's been going on

WWYD ladies?

I feel so anxious and depressed and am so worried for the future with her I can honestly see he turning DD against me with her manipulation or extravagant expensive gifts I've put up with this for 7 years now and only just started to stand up for myself but all that seems to be doing is causing problems and guilt

As far as marital counseling, the cardinal rule is 'if your spouse won't go with you, go alone'. A good marriage counselor can give you tools to deal with a spouse that is resistant to counseling or change. The patterns of behaviour your DH has have been ingrained in him since he was a small child. They aren't easy to change. Combine that with your own anxiety and you have a perfect set up for your MiL to dominate your marriage. Someone has to break that pattern. If you can find a counselor who can somewhat combine tools for dealing with your DH's behaviours as well as helping you build up your own assertiveness I think you'll be able to make a good start to creating a situation in which you will be able to stand up to your MiL.

He has to be more worried about upsetting you than about upsetting MIL.

I would withdraw completely from her ( to be honest she wouldn't be setting foot in my house) so all the PA shite over the phone calls would be someone elses (DH) problem as I wouldn't answer the phone to her again full stop.

You need to tell DH you cannot cope with her and withdraw completely. It sounds like she is too toxic to be around DD too but at least you can minimise contact. Good luck

Happy thank you.

The agro has already started, we were talking about tomorrow and about the possibility of the park, to which I said we could all go, he said just let DD & MIL go, I said no because I don't trust her (I don't trust her to not drop poison into DD's ear or manipulate her into asking me if she can stay overnight etc.. she has form for doing this, especially recently). Well, I've been told that no that's won't be happening and he's compromised enough

What would have happened if you had snapped right back "Yes, it is happening. You cannot stop me from going. You can 'compromise' all you want but I intend to put DD's welfare first and I will accompany her to the park and that's all there is to it!"?

What would he have done?

Sod him and his "compromising"! He can't stop you going to a public place with your own daughter!

Op please sit your 'D'P down and explain exactly how HIS mother makes you feel. He should be on your side and tbh your relationship will not last in the long run if he isn't. He should ALWAYS be on your side.
Remind him you are a partnership and should be on the same team!

Please stand up for yourself op. You must see they're both bullying you

Just joining the others, please stand up for yourself. And if that involves an argument then so be it.

He needs to buck his fucking ideas up

There's been a row I've explained pretty much everything you've all said on here, he admitted that he doesn't have a problem with the excessive buying, staying overnight blah blah blah but has agreed for my sake. I've tried to explain that he's blind to it all and it's just not normal. He said 'how do you think she'll feel if you say she's not allowed to take DD here or there or if you said that's it, no more contact'. I said well how do you think it's making me feel? It feels like you care more about her than us and quite frankly, we are your family now. I explained that I'd never shut the door fully, she'd always be welcome to come back but only when she books her ideas up. He has a DS who's mother stopped him from seeing for no reason and moved away to somewhere unknown, changed phone number etc so said he would never stop anyone from having contact with family, regardless of what they are doing unless it was dangerous. I'm trying to explain to him that that was a completely different situation, nothing to do with me and a different scenario. I SHOULD NOT be put in the same boat as her I've said fine, she can take DD to park or whatever but if I hear ONE word from DD's mouth that I think originated from her then the door will be temporarily shut until she books her ideas up and said I'm sorry but that's the way it is as DD comes first and I don't deserve this and if he doesn't agree then that's his predicament. I've told him he should be supporting me just as I've supported him over the years with multiple things whereby his mother was no where to be seen and I expect the same back. I feel so guilty now though I really don't feel I can win and I'm scared of DD being turned against me don't know what to do?

I love him and don't want our marriage to ever end but I'm so scared that this will all lead to that eventually as I'll end up saying I want NC with MIL and I'm scared he'll leave why does she have to do this?

Then you let him leave, frankly.

I'd be sticking to not letting her go with MIL tomorrow now - you have to show him you mean business.

Let him leave. And then let him ponder a life with just MIL in it, having lost his family to make her happy. Let him run to Mummy and spend a week there hearing her rant poison about you and probably your daughter too.

I think it might open his eyes!

By the way, what does he think of Mil's daughter (his Dsis?) - does he think she's a rounded, happy person or not? Where does he think he rbehaviour comes from? Does he think MIL did a good job with her?

Ask him all these things and ask him if he wants your DD warped in the same way.

I wonder how the ex got on with MIL and whether her running away and going NC had anything to do with her?

Stick to your guns. I still wouldn't allow MIL overnight access etc until she can prove to you that she is not going to badmouth you to DD.

You have done the hard bit - don't back down now, keep moving forwards............

Agree with Fizzy completely

If he choses his mother over you, he has told you everything you need to know - he shows you where his priorities lie and if HE choses to leave, I'd let him leave.

Listen to what he is telling you - he is telling you who he is. But you have to listen hard as it is.

I get impatient with people who talk about 'love' and 'support' but don't act in a loving or supportive way. 'Love' is just a word if not backed up by actions.

Very good for you that you stood up for yourself AND your beliefs! Even if you are now worried about 'what might happen', please take pride in the fact that you stood up to him! Congratulate yourself for having spoken your truth.

Please don't let him use the mother of his other child to manipulate you into giving in. Because it IS manipulative to use her behaviour to make you feel as if you are doing 'wrong' and have to give into him to prove you aren't 'horrible like her'. It's a trap we women fall into so easily! You correctly stand up for yourself and the man says "Ex used to do that and she was such a bitch/it was so hurtful, that's why I left her" or words to that effect. And so you bend over backwards and compromise yourself to prove to him that you are 'not like her' without first questioning his motives OR the truth behind your reasons for doing/saying what you did.

I'm not saying your marriage will end, but can you (if you want to) explain why you're so worried about him leaving? Exactly what do you think you'll 'lose' if he does? He doesn't seem very supportive of you. A very wise person once told me that 'the best thing a father can do for his children is to love and respect their mother'. He's not doing that, is he?

Fizzy but I don't want to lose him just to clarify I don't know if he would, he hasn't implied that, I'm just scared he will. And he thinks DSIS is spoilt and her behaviours terrible and admits this is probably because, or at least made worse because MIL spoils her and lets her get away with whatever she wants the majority of the time.

Happy apparently they didn't get on... don't know if that was the reason though, no one knows....

Pacific I definitely see where your coming from, we are very much in love though, I know that and I know he adores me, he just has a warped view because of his upbringing and not being able to see DS I think doesn't make it any easier though or fair

Thank you acrossthepond and thanks for your advice. Yes I've explained to him I don't want her to get between us and I don't want our marriage to be effected, he says it won't but it doesn't take my fear away. Probably related to my past, I'm terrified of losing people! But honestly, I wouldn't want our marriage to end as he's my best friend and my husband and we have lots of love for one another, as I said in my PP, I think because of his upbringing and surroundings he honestly doesn't see a problem

Well done for standing up for yourself op! That must have been so hard. It sounds like he's repeating a cycle here, he's lost one child does he want the same again? He needs to see somethings wrong here, two people are rarely wrong about the same thing. Stay strong op and good luck for tomorrow!

If your marriage is really good, then you won't lose him.

If he does leave, and take MIL's side over yours (ESPECIALLY when he can see what her influence has done to her daughter)... then you never really had him in the first place.

But I don't think that will happen. I think he's a coward - he's scared of MIL just as you are, he's had years of conditioning that she can steamroller her way in. It's easier to put subtle pressure on you to keep things ok than to stand up to her.

But given everything you've said that is actually totally out of order. This woman has utterly insulted his wife and the mother of his child. It's time he stood up to her. To be honest, neither of you will be really happy until that happens.

Happy apparently they didn't get on... don't know if that was the reason though, no one knows....

You really think he doesn't know why the mother of his child fucked off and allows him no contact?

I would tell him that if he doesn't want history to repeat itself he needs to start supporting you. It's no good making excuses for him and saying he "honestly doesn't see a problem." You are telling him there is a problem, you are standing right in front of him so he is choosing to ignore it because he wants you to just shut the fuck up and go back to "normal" which includes agreeing to whatever MIL wants.

Thanks everyone. I truly mean that I will let you all know how tomorrow goes. I've had a glass or two of wine so my anxiety has lessened thank goodness. I haven't felt anxiety like that in ages!

Happy to be fair, i don't think he did anything wrong, unsure about MIL but think unfortunately she was just that way....

Be strong and don't let her 'get' to you. Make this a 'watch and document' day in which you simply watch what goes on and make a mental list of the things she does contrary to your wishes and the things she says to you that are rude and dismissive. Write them down as soon as you get a chance. Then go over them with your DH a few days afterwards and explain to him why they are wrong and what does he want to do to 'fix' things, because if he won't, you WILL.

Honestly, your husband has as much say in your daughters upbringing as you do. It sounds like he doesn't have a problem with a lot of what she wants, so there are compromises that you need to come to as parents together - neither of your views should automatically win. Ivettje feeling you expect him to abide by your preferences and stay quiet for you, which means he's stuck between two women. Yes his priorities lie with you, but that doesnt mean your wishes trump his if actually he's happy with what some of the Mil does.

You were very young when you had your daughter and I imagine that moneyust have been tight - not many 17 year old and 21 year old couples could afford to support a baby. Did she support you a lot then, and is perhaps finding the changing dynamic as you mature and become more independent difficult?

I'll be twice the age you were when my first arrives, and the grandparents still want to spoil, and be very involved and give advice. It doesn't mean I'll listen and follow everything, but they've done this before, and I haven't.

I don't mean this to sound patronising, but as I've got older, I've become more relaxed about not having to do everything myself, and to accept help and at least listen to advice. Just smile, nod and then proceed as you would anyway. It sounds to me like you are fighting to show her and everyone that you're an adult now and don't need anyone, but actually we all could do with support from time to time. Many young parents would welcome the occasional overnight break, and if you can't afford extravagant outings, then I don't see anything wrong with the grandparents providing, because that way your child still gets to go to amazing places that they otherwise wouldnt. I think trying to do it all by yourself is a mistake personally, and way too much pressure on you and your husband.

The name calling by her is very off though, and your husband needs to put a stop to that.

Thanks blue sky but I don't think my age has anything to do with at all, I'm not a stereotypical 21 year old.

mumblebees - bloody well done for standing up for yourself and your daughter - that was really brave! He's being blind if he thinks he won't let this all affect your marriage - it already is being affected as he's letting someone be rude to his wife, which is not what a good spouse does.

The excessive spending - who knows, but if "D"H isn't going to back you up on that one, then I would focus on sorting the name-calling first, and just keeping telling DD that some people like to splash the cash, but it's rude to expect it.