MIL.... AGAIN. PLEASE HELP.

[mumblebees]

PLEASE READ, THANK YOU SO MUCH

I've been having problems with my MIL for around a year now, it all started when I, for the first time in almost 7 years, turned around and said 'no' to her she lives almost 100miles away (I don't drive either) and kept going on and on and on and on about having my DD who is only 4 overnight for days on end. I politely kept putting her off but she kept going behind my back to my DH when I wasn't in and convincing him to basically make me change my mind. Caused a lot of grief between me & DH and finally I text her asking her politely to stop asking as it wasn't going to happen and to not go behind my back etc.

Many things have happened since, interfering, ridiculous amounts of FaceTime calls per week to DD on DH's phone, name calling to me over the phone (two faced cow, bad mother, bad wife, controlling, silly child....) because I've said 'no' and started being more assertive. It all hit a head again over Easter because she was asking what to get DD for Easter. I said an egg, just like everybody else, after all, when did Easter become about iPads and the like?! She got huffy and waned to spoil her (as usual and which we don't agree with as we want to bring DD up to be grateful and count her blessings).

I'm sure she does this to look 'better' than us as we can't afford named brands etc (not that I'd spend crazy money like that anyway). She always goes ridiculous for Christmas/Birthdays etc... making us look bad and her like 'the one that will get DD anything she ever wants' (sure this is deliberate ) anyway, I said no, just get an egg like all the other children in her school will be getting, a few days later we get a package full of clothes after me repeatedly saying just an egg will be fine. I contacted her about it and she said 'she will buy DD whatever she wants and won't be dictated to by me, a silly child' (I'm 21, studying for a degree with a PT job, training and a small buisness for goodness sake!) I said well I'm her mother and I'm afraid what I say goes but she wasn't having any of it it's almost like she thinks DD is hers IYSWIM?

When she calls she's not bothered about speaking to DH, just says 'where's my baby'?! I'm sick and tired of it and don't know what to do. DH has only just started backing me up, before he was to afraid to upset her it seemed, she's quite manipulative with him but I was getting really hurt in the process she also says things to DD on the phone so she'll pester me for things or to go somewhere. Like at Christmas I overheard whispering in a separate room asking DD whether 'she'd like to stay longer and if so, she'll have to ask mummy'. Clearly done secretly and not expecting to be heard.

She's due here on Wednesday and I really don't want her to come if I'm to be honest, I know she'll play mind games and do the things I ask her not to do (like take DD to the shop and not just buy her one or two things but the whole frickin' shop or want to go somewhere extravagant which again makes us look bad as we don't drive so can't really get to many extravagant places but we do do other things like country park outings, wood walks, parks, swimming etc...)

This is just a snippet of what's been going on

WWYD ladies?

I feel so anxious and depressed and am so worried for the future with her I can honestly see he turning DD against me with her manipulation or extravagant expensive gifts I've put up with this for 7 years now and only just started to stand up for myself but all that seems to be doing is causing problems and guilt

I imagine your DH is a similar age to you so is probably not that mature himself (IMO as a general rule men take longer to grow up than women), and has been under his mum's thumb for most of his life. It's not that surprising that he's taken a while to break out of her control. He has to learn to support you, but I think you should probably cut him some slack if he occasionally lapses as long as he's heading in the right direction. You and DD are the main women in his life now.

Hi. I have a problematic mil too. She loves to be in control and I think that sounds a bit like yours. I have found mumsnet so helpful with this and I often screenshot catchphrases in the hope I am assertive but I have found the best thing was talking to dh and presenting a UNITED FRONT.

Firstly, talk to dh and agree some things such as facetime is terminated if a bad word is said against you or dh. Your child needs positive role models, Not someone who disrespects their parents. It is not being nice to children to hear that about their parents. If she does it in your presence only maybe talk to your child loudly saying, 'is that nasty nanny being horrible about your lovely mummy again?'

Secondly, talk to dh about how it is your (shared) home and it is your refuge where you should not be treated badly. Come to an AGREEMENT that if she says anything really bad I. E. Calls you a name then she will be asked to leave. She should not be in your home if she is rude to you and can't treat you like a human being.

Thirdly, Do not leave your child alone with her of she will drip poison in her ear.

Fourthly, if she says something in your hearing only repeat it loudly as soon as dh is back. I. E. Your mother was just saying....

Lastly, if she ever asks where her baby is you say dh is at work (or wherever he is). If she says, no I meant Child's name then you look concerned and say 'oh dear, you are getting forgetful. I gave birth to child, that's not something I would forget! (tinkly laugh) I am Child's mummy and she is mine and dh' s baby. No-one else's. ' Say something like this every time.

You are definitely not being unreasonable.

GET DHL TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT WITH YOU ASAP.

Good luck 🍀

Acrossthepond she's just coming for the day, I have said I don't want her staying overnight to DH....

Trifle I guess so, I just don't know what to because I don't want me and DH to split up I'm scared of the outcome. What I want to say is I'd rather her not be in my life but can't as she's family feel guilty for even feeling like that in the first place. Grrrr, catch 22

Arthur that's so lovely that your partner said that, wish mine would!! Sorry you've been through similar also

Happypool that's exactly what I want to do and say in an ideal world but the fallout would be immense

Ewe I've already said that one thing that she says or does, I'll have to send her home because I just can't deal with it anymore!

Dinosaur I said that to her on the phone in the aftermath, that DD is associating her with materialistic things but it unfazes her as she, IMO, is money obsessed.
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Annie* he is 26

We had 2 'difficult' children and attended various 'parenting' classes and it seems to me that your MIL is behaving very badly.

I recall the term 'preparing for success' where, when calm, the rules are agreed and laid down (your house rules in this case) and before the event/visit. So, for you, no name calling by MIL, no excessive spoiling of child and whatever else you need to address... and the consequence will be....

If your mother in law oversteps these lines then she knows, in advance, what will happen and then of course you must follow through - it's her choice if she chooses to comply!

Harsh, but you are the adults, she's your daughter and your MIL is visiting. Maybe you and your husband can decide on the priorities and he speak to her before her visit and give her time to take it in. From the sound of it, she won't take it well and she might ignore what he says. However, if she's told firmly what your consequence will be then she will know where she stands too.

I'm dreading becoming the MIL as I have 2 sons and I am somewhat enthusiastic and opinionated.

My parents had wonderful relationships with my sons - it's special and it's lovely for them to 'spoil' and be generous with them. In all things there is balance and it would be sad for you all to fall out.

Take control, make it clear that you have house rules and visitors must behave well - after all I can't imagine your MIL behaving the same with friends or acquaintances.

Good luck
ps I was rubbish at putting all the theory into practice!

Most of it is unacceptable and calling you a silly child is downright rude and has to stop.

But why don't you want your DD to do extravagant things with MIL?

DD won't remember anything beyond when nanny was visiting you went to X place and it was fun.

And with things like Easter if she doesn't send an egg just keep the clothes back and don't give them to DD. Get them out as you want DD to have them and don't mention where they came from. Saves you money!

But honestly stop worrying about mil spending more. My parents always bought ds bike etc for birthday - at 12 he really isn't that bothered and he hasn't grown up thinking anything beyond that's what nanny and grandad bought!

Thanks MIL but there is only room for one mother in this house and that's me.

Sherbertlemon so sorry to hear your going through similar. I wish I had the guts to say those things! I'm a wimp I will not be leaving DD alone with her as I know that's what will happen, why doesn't she realise that what's she's doing is only going to damage the family unit?!

Alison thank you for that advice I'll try my best!

Youarenotkiddingme the reason I don't like it is because it's every time, we can't ever do anything more normal that only costs a little and I know the reason behind what she's doing and it doesn't seem right, it's almost like DD is a pawn for her mind games. Plus, DD is seeing her not as 'nana' but as 'money'. For example, we were in a shop a while back and she asked for something, we said no, not today, she said 'oh well, nana will get me it' that's the extent of it now. It's hurtful quite frankly. DD has always been a grateful child but MIL seems to be ruining that

Neil I would love to say that!!!!

Could you say something like ' thank you so much for her generosity with the gifts for DD but DD doesn't need or appreciate these things so perhaps you could put the money away for her instead for when she is older, to use towards a driving lessons or a car, or her education if she goes to university'.

Cake that is a fab idea, thanks

Right. Concentrate on what is important here: talking about you to Dd, calling you 'silly' etc.

What is not important; buying her things. However much she buys her granddaughter, it will not compute as 'making you look bad' in your little girl 's eyes. You mention this 'looking bad' or her 'looking better' several times. The love of your little girl is not a competition lost and won on parcels of clothes. Accept and be glad! No skin off your nose if she saves you some cash!

If you hear her using Facetime to insult you and drip poison into your DD's ear then march into the room, give a loud "I HEARD THAT" and simply cut off the call.

She is bang out of order. Don't let her do this, and don't let her be alone with DD. You cannot trust her.

If she asks when she can have your DD overnight then say never.

I agree with the PP who suggested you put your DH on the line when she asks for "her" baby. He was her baby. Your DD is your baby, not hers.

Testtube if you refer back to my post to youarenotkiddingme you'll hopefully see what I mean.....

Topseyt I just wish I had the guts but looks like I'm going to have to grow some balls regardless of the fallout!

Yes, sorry, I cross posted: that is a problem.

Thank you all for your helpful advice and for reading my loooong post! I'm getting the feeling I need to be really assertive and firm regardless of what that may entail as DD is my daughter and if I don't feel comftable with something, she should respect that. What she does with her own kids is her provocative but that doesn't mean she can do whatever she likes with my DD...

In answer to your question, I am not sure if it was at me or rhetorical, my mil doesn't see it as damage to the family unit as she sees herself as head of the family (fil is henpecked). Slowly my dh has recognised that we are our own little family too. Try and talk to your dh. If someone else at work or in a shop called you those awful names would he let that happen? Stay strong x

When we challenge her my mil says things like I have raised children! But we try and say in a neutral tone but this is our turn now, we are the parents.

At the end of the day it is not good for your daughter to see that it is OK to call people names or be rude. If your daughter did it in school she would be punished so why is it OK for her to see that an adult can do it?

Please try and get dh on side. I did the drip drip approach. He didn't realise how rude my mil was at first, I started giving him little nudges or a raised eyebrow every time she said something awful. It took a while because he had grown up with it so either thought it was normal or let it slide for an easy life so she did not have a tantrum

I think there's a middle ground and that's what you need to establish. Nana's are supposed to spoil their little ones. It's not a case of making you look bad OP . I doubt that even crosses your MiLs mind.

Agree occasional treats . Not every time and not always expensive. But there is place for it. If she wants her grandchild overnight she needs to understand the rules , and I'm not taking about treats . I mean not speaking badly of mummy or daddy etc.

No she can't do what she likes with your DD but it is her grandchild so I understand that she wants to be involved. Sounds like she adores her.

You might feel you can't trust her now but that's not to say that it will always be that way. Your child will benefit by having a relationship with her grandmother, you just need a frank discussion about what that looks like.

Getting your dh on side is definitely key here. I would imagine that he doesn't truly appreciate what a cow she is being because he's grown up with it and thinks it's normal.

I've been told for 17 years that I'm over sensitive just because I recognise that his cuntish parents are fucking rude

It doesn't sound like the MiL adores the OP's DD to me - it sounds like the MiL is a manipulative bitch who wants to be the #1 woman in everyone's lives still, including her now grown-up son and his daughter. I imagine she sees the OP as an inconvenient but necessary incubator and she's trying to buy the DDs affections with huge extravagances. I suspect she also still views them as children rather than adults who have grown up, moved away and can make their own decisions now.

The "oh well Nana will give it me then" comment says far too much.

Mumble yes you need to be firm and assertive, but not rude. There's no need to stoop to her level. A "no thanks, she doesn't need more clothes / toys / electronics at 4" is fine. However if there's something you'd like your DD to have but can't afford, you could temper it with "but she'd love XYZ if you'd like to give it on her birthday".

With regard to the name calling - challenge her. "Did you really just call me a two faced cow? Why?" Make it clear that unless she treats you with respect and as an adult with your own family, she is no longer welcome in your home either in person or via Skype calls.

You could have a polite Skype chat before she arrives with "we're looking forward to seeing you! We'd like to get some ground rules established to make the visit a good one - there will be no name calling and no disrespect of Mumbles, you will not undermine our parenting choices, no extravagant gifts (we will return them). There will be lots of time for you to see your DGD, we can go to ABC if you would like to. If you aren't happy with this it's best we get it sorted now or we'll have to delay you visiting until we are all comfortable. " Both you & your DH together, presenting united front. May either make Weds easier, or she may not come down. Win win on both fronts.

"I think you're lumping a whole load of other unimportant issues together because you don't get along.
If she comes to visit and wants to take you guys somewhere extravagant why not just let her? It's not making you look bad, its allowing your daughter to experience something with her grandparent that she normally wouldn't. She'll only benefit from that."

"What is not important; buying her things. However much she buys her granddaughter, it will not compute as 'making you look bad' in your little girl 's eyes. You mention this 'looking bad' or her 'looking better' several times. The love of your little girl is not a competition lost and won on parcels of clothes. Accept and be glad!"

OP, I know you have already responded to these comments. But I have to say I still agree with them.

There is something about the tone of your posts - the way you want to instil gratitude by denial, the implication that you can "train" children to be a certain way... it feels slightly off to me.

I am sure your MIL has the ability to be a pain - it sounds like there is a long complex history there. So I can see why you have some of the problems with her that you do.

But I would really honestly examine your own motivations too. Really - if your daughter wants something that you won't buy her, and she says "oh well, Grandma will buy it for me" - what is actually wrong with that? Her grandmother will not be around forever. When she is gone, your daughter will not spend the rest of her life hunting for a replacement grandmother who will continue to buy her stuff until the end of time.

I also don't think you can create associations like you suggest. For example:

"She now sees 'nana' as 'money'. As soon as MIL walks in, DD asks 'have you got me anything', 'where's my jigsaw' etc... precisely what we are bringing her up not to do and how not to act. In this household, love comes first, money second."

This is a nice idea, but you can't make your daughter believe this. So she associates your MIL with gifts. So what? Is she insisting that everyone else in her life showers her with gifts too? Your daughter is intelligent enough to know that the "gift" thing only applies to her grandmother. She is nuanced enough to be able to understand that it doesn't mean that everyone has to be giving her stuff constantly. And a lack of gifts doesn't instil gratitude - what an odd idea, a bit like training a dog.

Sherbert thank you for your advice and your experience definitely sounds similar. I have also tried he drip drip approach and it doesn't get me anywhere!

Plaintalkin there's no way she's having her overnight IMO, it's too far away and I'm not comftable with it. There are many 'safety' issues that bring me to this decision which I don't wish to go into....

Ohforfoxache very true!!!

Hicdraconis thank you so much for understanding and giving the advice you've given, really need to put some of that into practice!

Deadgood I have to disagree, if my daughter says 'oh well, nana will buy me it' that to me is not acceptable behaviour. It is wrong IMO and there is definitely an issue there. No sense of money values or moral values. If I am bringing my DD up to be grateful and respectful of her things, I don't see that as a bad thing? She certainly doesn't go without.... far from it to be honest!! Why should nana buy her everything she asks for? I have seen MIL do that to her own DD and trust me, it has NOT worked out well for her....

Oh and deadgood I would much rather my DD love her GM for who she is rather than her gifts, to me, material things should not be the forefront of a relationship? She should want to see her GM because she wants too, not because she wonders what will be in her bag?

I would probably let the gifts go. If you don't spoil her, she won't be spoilt as it's not the norm and your values will be central. You can prime DS a bit about nana giving lots of stuff and that other people give in other more meaningful ways (attention, kindness, helping, sharing).

Also when ever Nan is rude either leave immediately or put the phone down immediately. Say something like 'that's very rude behaviour. Goodbye'. Then DH, yourself and DD shouldn't answer the phone for a week. She will eventually learn that rudeness is cut short and results in no contact with her GD.

Really your DH needs to take a stand. It's not acceptable to let MIL treat you so badly.

Squished yes I get what your saying about the gifts but unfortunately it's already impacting negatively on DD