How do working mums do it?

[magicat]

I've been at home with our 4 DC for 12 years. Now that they're all in school a couple of people have asked me, "What do you do all day?" and "Are you returning to work now then?"

I'm not against the idea of returning to work, (even though DH tells me not to bother), but I doubt I'd get a job that fits within school hours. DH doesn't get in until 7.30 / 8pm and often travels as well. When I try and think through the logistics of it all, I wonder how it would actually work because -

• We have no family support around
• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
• Who would get the kids to school?
• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)
• What about school holidays?
• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate
• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush
• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner
• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is
• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

If anyone else is in my position i.e. no family support, a fair few DC and a DH with very minimal input into the day-to-day running of things, could I please ask how you made returning to work "work" and are you permanently exhausted and overwhelmed?

backups should say packups

And when i say we work together I mean we co-operate - we work different places.

NoLoveOfMine - Agree. Both parties need to pull their weight. I was struck by the book bag thing, because it's me that tends to go in early and then do the evening pick up. DH takes kids to school and then comes home late. He's in charge of school uniform because he does the laundry. I'm in charge of admin!

because when you don't have all week to do stuff, it doesn't take all week!

This. My mum did her PhD in 3 years while working full-time and raising me and my brother.

Given that I see so many students whining on the internet about how they have to do 70+ hour weeks and still take 4 years for a PhD, I asked, how did you do it? She said, you take as much time as you have.

It will seem daunting after 12 years but lots of people can and do make it work. Wraparound care (with 4 I agree a nanny would be cost effective), outsource as much as you can (cleaning, ironing etc). Make kids and husband responsible for clearing up after themselves and organising their stuff.
As suggested nanny can do(or at least supervise) kids laundry, tidying and homework. We have a nanny some days and she gets our littlest bathed and in pjs for when we get home do all we need to do is play and read stories (the fun stuff!)
We only have 2 but we manage illness and special assemblies etc by using holiday, working from home etc. No family help.
Holiday clubs/nanny/annual leave for school hols.
It can work if you want it to. Be firm with what you expect from husband though! (Ours is a very equal household!)

NanFlanders indeed. It sounds as if you have an ideal balance in your household too; it's similar in mine!

I think it's totally different having 4 to 2 kids when working. It's a lot more homework, washing, logistics, illness... And if you have been at home for years then you are probably not going back into a well paid job and therefore childcare will be very expensive. If you want to find a way to do it you absolutely can but don't do it because of other people's opinions. Do what works for you and your family. An au pair would probably be the best way to do it if you had space for someone to live in.

OMG, op! Just seen you have a cleaner twice a week! What on earth are your family doing to create that much mess?

Meant to say, my kids are very rarely ill, but dh or I would stay home either on leave or working from home. It may be because of my low standards of cleaning that they are rarely ill....

I didn't work for 9 years, until youngest was 7 as dh was away for months at a time, and we couldn't have made it work living here in the sticks, but I hated not working... you may love not working and that's different... so we make it work, and I'm a different person, more like I used to be BC.

Hello OP I have no family support, work full time in a fairly demanding job (not 9-5) and no have no nanny. I have one child who is primary age. I have found planning/having a flexible partner and planning my diary are essential. I sometimes borrow my friend's aupair, I research and book in advance holiday clubs and we basically schedule everything out. I am there for my child's "important" events, but I am not there all the time at school

I should say I also have a cleaner once a week (I also clean at the w/k) and have someone to do the bulk of my ironing

Someone asked OP what they did until 10.30.

As a parent to 5 (one at home) - I can itemise:

3.00 set off to get kids.
4.30 get home (multiple schools and different finish times).
4.30-5.00 after school admin (signing trip letters/loading kits in to wash etc)
5.00-5.30 fix dinner & have a cup of tea
5.30 - 6.30 dinner (it seems long - but lots of kids = lots of chat)
6.30- 7.00 bathe kids & stories for younger ones
7.00 - 7.30 support older kids music practise & homeworks
7.30-8.00 clear kitchen
8.00 - 8.30 spend time watching TV with my eldest who is needing extra attention atm,
8.30-9.00 DH home. Talk to him/eat with him.
9.00-10.00 chores/admin/ironing
10.00 bathe myself and set out things for the morning

OP - I am training up for an IT career which I can do flexibly. I am also on call as a cover supervisor in a local secondary school - but that pays peanuts.

When I had 3 DC I worked with a CM - but 5 DC childcare is prohibitively expensive - and the older ages means that I am 'on' much later into the night, so it difficult if I am not at home at least a bit during the day to get myself straight.

It's difficult to think about DH in terms of "input" because I've never had another DH to compare him to He does work very hard. He has a .com company and various other ventures so there's never been any clear work cut-off time for him. If he needs to work evenings or weekends, then he does. I can't complain as he's not at all lazy and he's created successful businesses out of thin air so obviously we've all benefited from that. I just couldn't rely on him to get the kids out to school or that kind of thing.

One obvious plan I haven't seen suggested is that your husband takes a step back from his career and goes part-time/flexitime/takes a career break/becomes a SAHP in order to prioritise your career now.

Given that I see so many students whining on the internet about how they have to do 70+ hour weeks and still take 4 years for a PhD, I asked, how did you do it? She said, you take as much time as you have.

Absolutely! when I did my first degree, child free and only a part time job, I'ld piss about for weeks and still be finishing my coursework last minute. I'ld go to the library but spend time chatting to friends and dicking about. Did a masters post kids and while working: had literally 2 hours free a week to go to the library - I made those 2 hours count and always got my work in ahead of time because I knew if I didn't there was no other time to get it done!

It's the same with everything. When I was a SAHM I had a "shopping day". Now I fit in a quick shop with no faffing. When I was a SAHM I used to pop into town if someone's birthday was coming up or if the kids had a party to go to for a gift and card, now no way would that be a separate trip! Birthday gifts and cards are picked up for the week ahead as part of the weekly supermarket shop - see, because there is no other time to do gift shopping, the gift shopping gets done ahead of time and without any extra trips.

Also re kids activities, I used to stand on the sideline watching/waiting for the hour! Now I either do drop off or pick up (with an extra child) and have the other childs parent do the opposite trip for almost all of the DDs activities, so what WAS a 1.5 hour task is now just a 20 min trip, usually tagged onto my drive home from work.

We also share out the household chores. In fact I used to work part time and then went back to almost full time and told DH that he would have to take on more of the chores as I wasn't going to be able to do all of it.

It definitely helps to have flexible employers and to be able to work from home. During illnesses we negotiate who gets to stay at home with sick child. Child has to stay in bed and then whichever of us is home can still work.
School plays, etc I can usually work from home and make up the time later on. Or DH will do the same.

Holidays - we split out our holiday (in fact, if we didn't want to take holidays together we'd have the whole year covered between us!). Next week DH is doing two days, I'm doing three days. In the summer holidays it will be a combination of grandparents and holiday camps. If the grandparents couldn't help it would just be holiday camps.

Round the house we divide up the tasks - it works for us.
It is a different way of working to dividing up time along the more traditional Dad works, mum stays at home scenario.
I do know a family with four children where both parents work. They juggle and work as a team. And they expect all the children to help.

He does work very hard.

So do you.

I just couldn't rely on him to get the kids out to school or that kind of thing.

I can't see why not. It's always assumed mothers will do this, plenty of whom work as hard and have done similar to your husband.

I can't complain as he's not at all lazy and he's created successful businesses out of thin air so obviously we've all benefited from that. I just couldn't rely on him to get the kids out to school or that kind of thing.

half the point of working hard in the formative years to build up a sucessful business(es) is so that later down the line (i.e. now!) you get to deligate and step back while other people do your donkey work. If his businesses are as sucessful as you say he should be able to now give himself at least one fixed day off where he can help/be unavailable and expect his employees to crack on. Or at least be working towards that set up, otherwise, what is he working towards?

What people don't admit is that in a lot of ways its easier to work.

When I was a sahm I did everything, as was fair.

Now I'm a working mum DH does before school and I do after - I leave very early, at 5:30am so DH takes the youngest to school after seeing the older ones off to the bus stop. I'm home in time to pick them up from after school care (in our case as we are abroad after school means from 12:15! The youngest is in Kindergarten til 3pm - I pick him up about ten to, and the middle one in lunch/ afternoon/ homework club til 3pm)

There is proper supervision and help at homework club - as a sahm I found homework supervision more frustrating than I had ever found the toddler years, despite the fact I used to be a teacher!

The kids do a lot more now I am working - eldest voluntarily does her own laundry, younger ones (9 and 6) carry theirs to the machine and put their own away. They pack the dishwasher and unpack it, and take the bins out.

DH does far more and is beginning, slowly, to take a bit more of the mental load.

I have to work weekends once a month, which forces DH to actually cook and ferry kids about at weekends - before I did all of that.

I'm doing 26 hours a week atm and will be doing 36 hours from September, but it isn't any harder than being a sahm as the more I'm out, the more DH and the kids do, plus some of it is outsourced to homework club etc :o

We will probably get a cleaner at some point - atm it is partly that although I hate cleaning I don't really want a cleaner, I have hang ups but I'll get myself over it once doing full time :o (They are also quite hard to find where we live, so a bit of effort required getting an arrangement set up).

Its no harder magicat in fact its easier to work and share the domestic load than being absolutely and solely responsible for every single little and big thing child and house and education and clothing and food (planning, shopping, cooking) etc. related relentlessly, 24/7 365 days a year while children are small.

Maddie - yes evenings are pretty much like that for me too.

Mumchance - he wouldn't know how to step back from work I don't think. He's not that type.

I just couldn't rely on him to get the kids out to school or that kind of thing.

It's not rocket science!

Don't be one of those women who convince themselves that they're the indispensable parent and their OH could never do what they do and then wonder why they have no help!

Honestly, if you can afford it, just stay off til the youngest gets to high school.

50-50 split of everything with dh. From cleaning to drop offs. Plus, we are both teachers so school holidays aren't a concern.

Magicat I wouldn't be giving into any pressure to go back to work unless you have a burning desire to do so.

To be honest, if you are a SAHM to school age children at the moment, and its taking you until 10-30pm at night to get things done, and that's with the benefit of a cleaner twice a week, I don't think you would cope with working, certainly not full time. Enjoy the set up you have!

Don't be one of those women who convince themselves that they're the indispensable parent and their OH could never do what they do and then wonder why they have no help!

Indeed. Plenty (from those I know of most) of mothers and fathers have great careers in which they're highly successful but are also perfectly able to do "parenting" work.

It depends if you would like to work, OP. Would you, or are you just feeling like you 'should' work? I'm assuming it was a mutual agreement with your partner that you would not work while your kids were young. If you'd like to resume work now then I'd be pretty insulted at your partner telling you not to bother! Sounds like this suits him well as he doesn't have to do anything other than work outside the home. What's he doing between 7.30/8pm and 10.30pm while you are still doing housework?

It can be done. I work part-time. I drop my 7 year old daughter at breakfast club at 7.30 in the morning and pick her up at 3.00 pm. I work 8.30 - 2.30 5 days a week. My daughter spends 3 weeks in the summer in a holiday club, one week at Easter and one half term in a holiday club (which she thoroughly enjoys) and hubby and I cover the rest with our annual leave. We do not get any help from family or friends.