How do working mums do it?

[magicat]

I've been at home with our 4 DC for 12 years. Now that they're all in school a couple of people have asked me, "What do you do all day?" and "Are you returning to work now then?"

I'm not against the idea of returning to work, (even though DH tells me not to bother), but I doubt I'd get a job that fits within school hours. DH doesn't get in until 7.30 / 8pm and often travels as well. When I try and think through the logistics of it all, I wonder how it would actually work because -

• We have no family support around
• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
• Who would get the kids to school?
• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)
• What about school holidays?
• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate
• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush
• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner
• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is
• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

If anyone else is in my position i.e. no family support, a fair few DC and a DH with very minimal input into the day-to-day running of things, could I please ask how you made returning to work "work" and are you permanently exhausted and overwhelmed?

I have four DC, aged between three and ten. I returned to work last year after taking eight years out. Like you, ZERO family support, and no friends I would feel comfortable asking to leave even one DC with, let alone four. So a very similar situation.

My career is in IT so it's reasonably well-paid which helps.. the downside being is that most IT jobs, especially when applying, require you to be fulltime. Ideally I would be part time. I went back to work because I was bored and depressed, and right now our costs are about the same as my salary - I basically gain a pension and that is it in real terms. It will get cheaper when the youngest is in school but it's hardly going to be a life-changing sum.

Here's what we do:

• a cleaner
• an after school nanny five days a week (this is very cost-effective with four DC - cheapest way)
• nursery for the youngest three days a week with the nanny for the other two days so she gets a bit of freedom as the nursery does not have a big garden

As we have a nanny, part of her responsibility is to do the children's laundry and keep their bedrooms tidy. That takes a LOT of the pressure off us combined with having a cleaner too.

We're also very lucky in that DH can work from home on a fairly ad-hoc basis so long as he doesn't take the piss. This means he is usually able to cover for child sickness, although that doesn't happen very often any more, not like it did initially. I think they've caught most things now! Also a nanny will often take a child when a nursery will not.

My work has core hours of 10-4.30 and I work 15 minutes away. This means I can still do assemblies etc so long as I work later that day.

I take a week of unpaid parental leave every year which means I have an extra five days for things like appointments, school meetings etc. And days when the nanny is on holiday.

We also use holiday camps on occasion for when the nanny is away in the holidays, otherwise the nanny does full time in the holiday. This is totally normal, lots of nannies are fine with after school only and then full time in the holidays, although I won't deny it's a huge pain working out fair ways to calculate holiday allowance when you have such variable hours! We use a nanny payroll company which helps with the pay.

It's a juggle, I won't deny it, and when the childcare breaks down (nanny sick, or a child properly sick) it can get stressful. But we muddle by. It won't be this hard forever and my career is now well-established again. Most importantly, I have my sanity back and a better relationship with our children as a result!

I never thought I would be able to find a way back to work but I did. It can be done - just tackle one problem at a time otherwise it feels insurmountable!

Don't turn OP's question into a feminist argument.

It is a feminist argument.

Why do you assume all working dads have a wife at home doing all the housework and working mums wouldn't have a husband doing the same? Plenty of couples with children both work full time. My parents do.

Forgot to add - we do food shopping online, and the nanny takes them to afterschool clubs and does their homework/music practice supervision. Nannies are awesome like that :-)

Of course its a feminist issue .

No man would ever ask such a question.

I work part time (3 days a week). DH works full time long hours. On my working days, the DC (I have 3) go to breakfast club and after school club. They are also picked up by grandparents once a week, but if I didn't have that support they could do an extra day at ASC, no bother.

I'm lucky to get 8 weeks holiday a year and DH gets 5. Obviously that's not enough as the DC get 13 and we sometimes want to all be off together, so they go to holiday clubs some weeks. It's not too bad though because they only have to go on my working days, not for the full week.

I have a great work life balance - I love my job and find it stimulating and rewarding, but I also have lots of time with my DC, and two days a week to go for a run, catch up on admin etc.

They don't just magically make it happen as well as doing all the things you list.

• Some of these things keep happening but other people handle them - DH, school wrap-around, holiday clubs, nanny, au-pair etc
• Some of these things they get more organised/efficient about
• Some of these things they stop doing

The points about silent work / wifework are very salient

I have a childminder who feeds them as well, plus I only work term time so I don't need to worry about school holidays. And I've finally given in and got a cleaner!

It's not rocket science- you just have to pay someone to do the things you don't have time to do anymore. It just depends whether it's worth your while financially/whether your career is something you enjoy/whether your long term career prospects will suffer by not working for a while.

I don't assume that @NoLoveOfMine.

The OP explained HER situation. The way they obviously share the work is that HE is working outside the home long hours and SHE has the lion's share of the housework/childcare. She was asking how she would manage to continue that whilst working outside the home. Other posters have rightly said they would have to rearrange things as a family to make things work.

Why are men not expected to do their fair share of household work?

No idea, but that needs to change! Me and my boyfriend never had any expectation that I would do more than half of the housework. In fact he does more than half, given that he cooks and does all the washing (well, he produces all the washing LOL).

I think it's a generational thing or an expectation that men/women have that never gets discussed, so just continues.

OP I went back 0.5 when DD went into Y1. Two DC. Went fulltime two years later. We had an au-pair for the next four years which meant the dc could carry on with their activities. It only worked because I was able to work locally.

Whether you can make it work with four will depend on the ages of the eldest two and whether for the first few years you are prepared to work for very little or no money as an investment in your future career/pension.

I only had six weeks maternity leave, was overseas so no family support and ex H walked out so I was completely alone and working full time. Aside from hating to leave DD so tiny, it was simple enough because all nurseries ran from 8am to 6pm, 52 weeks a year. The term SAHP didn't exist - no welfare state (no tax either).

The shock was coming back to the UK when DD was five and a half. I was still a sole parent but commuting to London so paid a childminder at both ends of the day. I breathed a sigh of relief when DD started secondary school, after which it was much easier. DD was at private school for primary and had nine weeks' holiday in the summer - I used to start a spreadsheet in January and get people to commit to dates, and figure out holiday clubs for the rest (I only ever took a week off and used to save holiday in case of unforeseen circumstances). It's about organisation I think; it was generally ok and in some ways simpler that ex H has never been involved in any way.

DD will be 20 this year and is extremely competent and independent; going to university wasn't as big a deal for her as for some of her friends because she's been so used to cooking for herself, splitting household tasks etc. Plenty of positives!

Ginger782 it sounds like you're agreeing with the rest of us.
But you don't think this is a feminist issue?! It's so bound to gender stereotypes and cultural expectations even I think it's a feminist issue...

The OP explained HER situation.

When you said "it's not the same as working dads" I took that to imply all working dads had partners who didn't work. As they clearly don't, it is relevant to ask how working dads manage if you do how working mums manage, as plenty of working dads have partners who also work full time.

I think it's a generational thing or an expectation that men/women have that never gets discussed, so just continues.

I concur. Also even in households where both work, so often much of the housework ends up being done by the woman, which children then pick up on and perpetuate as they grow up. This needs to change entirely and men not be praised for simply doing some of the household work but expected to do their (genuine) fair share.

DH and I both work full-time, each with a fair amount of travel, though we are lucky in that he can finish work early on Weds and me on Friday so. No family nearby. We have an excellent childminder who picks them up from the school and accommodates their school-based clubs etc.(picks them up at 4 on samba drumming days etc.). We do sometimes have clashes,.e.g this week we found he was supposed to be in Belgium when I was supposed to be in Belgium, so have to be very careful with diaries and checking with each other - and I guess we probably aren't the best employees, as we sometimes just can't make an evening meeting. I batch cook at the weekend and have a freezer full of home made meals; he does all the laundry at the weekend. We outsource the cleaning - best £30 a week we spend.

Thanks for replying. It seems to me like people either get into the habit of using childcare / nannies quite early on, or they don't. It's harder to introduce later maybe?

We wanted to have 4 DC obviously, but it's a lot of mental / emotional energy on a day to day basis.

Their school does not have wraparound care. They do offer after school clubs but won't allow this more than twice a week.

To the PP who asked, I'm up until late most nights just cleaning up, sorting uniforms, PE, book bags etc otherwise the mornings are chaos!

He was supposed to be in Belgium when I was supposed to be in the Midlands! He has a much more glamorous job than I do!

I wonder the same as you. Although DH is able to leave work in an emergency sometimes, we have no family support, I have 3 children in 3 different places - preschool/ primary/ high school, all spread out geographically so none of them can walk home, just wouldn't be able to find a childminder to pick up from 3 locations. 11yo not responsible enough to be home alone (ASD) so whilst I do a bit of wfh in the evenings (and weekends until recently) getting a FT job would be nigh on impossible logistically I think. My earning potential is nowhere near DH's. He's very good at taking initiative with housework/ childcare when at home though.

I will look for term time work when the youngest is in primary school and perhaps by then there'll be a bus route from the secondary school which the older 2 could use to get home, but for now I'll have to stick with my self-employed from home work.

If you are out things get less messy. Try and get uniform in same place to go with. Write a list of things to remember.

I'm up until late most nights just cleaning up, sorting uniforms, PE, book bags etc otherwise the mornings are chaos

DCs need to learn to own that, it's not all on you

Even 3 & 4 yr olds can help with repeatable simple stuff like this - give it a try!

I have 3 and work part time 3 days a week. Dh and I work around each other, and he does late shifts on my 2 days off. I do evening shifts and night shifts. Dh does 2 school drop offs a week and I do all the pick ups.

Clean during the day (I have to be quite lax about this and I do have a spare room filled with washed clothes upstairs). Dh cooks most evenings. I do homework with them on the weekends. During the week I do reading and writing etc with them on my 2 days off. Dd1 does sumdog everyday for about an hour.

My house isn't a show home, but the kids are fed, clean, bathed and happy. And they are extremely proud of me for working, my ds (5) told me I'm really hardworking once and that's exactly what I want to teach them.

I have a nanny, cleaners, gardener, the lot. Without these, I could not function. I am often exhausted.

I got round childcare issues by becoming self employed as a freelancer - so working the hours that suit me. It does depend what area you want to work in though. And actually work and homelife do mingle and it can still be a bloody nightmare. I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect scenario when it comes to working and raising kids at the same time.

I was a SAHM when my DC were little so they've had to get used to childcare later on.

It's up to you really OP. You don't need have to go back to work, but it's certainly doable if you want to!

With four kids it might be worth using an after school nanny service rather than paying 4 lots of childcare. Other options - civil service sometimes offers term-time only contracts; my sil works from home doing legal work until she picks up the kids at 3.30, looks after them until 5.30 when bil gets home, then does a couple of hours more work (he cooks, she cleans); or self-employed contract work if you have a saleable skill.
Only if you want to though - if your family are happy with the current arrangement, then it's nobody else's business.

What am I doing wrong? I'm on maternity leave and I can't understand how SAHPs manage it long term. I have 3 DCs and always feel swamped in housework and laundry and the house never looks quite clean. DH works long hours and comes home from work and gets stuck into the cleaning. I'm finding it difficult to cope as the job is never done - it's endless.