How do working mums do it?

[magicat]

I've been at home with our 4 DC for 12 years. Now that they're all in school a couple of people have asked me, "What do you do all day?" and "Are you returning to work now then?"

I'm not against the idea of returning to work, (even though DH tells me not to bother), but I doubt I'd get a job that fits within school hours. DH doesn't get in until 7.30 / 8pm and often travels as well. When I try and think through the logistics of it all, I wonder how it would actually work because -

• We have no family support around
• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
• Who would get the kids to school?
• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)
• What about school holidays?
• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate
• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush
• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner
• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is
• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

If anyone else is in my position i.e. no family support, a fair few DC and a DH with very minimal input into the day-to-day running of things, could I please ask how you made returning to work "work" and are you permanently exhausted and overwhelmed?

I've worked full time in a demanding career throughout raising two children, moving cities and countries. DH workaholic twit. No family support. But of course entirely possible.

If you want to work, I'd strongly suggest that you make the first step a two-week training course somewhere several hours away with limited phone reception. You'll be amazed by how quickly your husband will learn to operate the washing machine and plan meals when that's his only hope of clothing and food. And by how children can pack their own PE kits if nothing but their own initiative stands between them and a detention. In fact, I really think you need that two-week course (spa break?) anyway, because 5 people have you for a mug at the moment.

I can't help but notice in your original post that you didn't write "I'm really keen to get back to my career." So do you even want to go back or is this something you think you should do? I'm an only child and my mum didn't work. I always remember being sent off in the morning for the school bus by mum and knowing when I got home mum would be there to greet me. I may not have really thought to appreciate this at the time but looking back I do. I don't really remember seeing my mum do housework (the house was always clean), the weekends were free to do as we wished, and I was never dragged around a supermarket and she was always available to help with homework and take me to and from groups and music lessons etc. I feel VERY VERY lucky that this was an option for my family and that my dad worked hard as it isn't for most. So I guess my question is if you are also lucky to be in this situation and you and your husband are not that fussed about you going back to work....then why are you? xx

I'm a single mum of one and have no family or support network (my family lives abroad and my friends all live miles away).
I work in marketing and it's not a 9-5pm only job, I wake up at 6am, have a 30min walk to nursery (and 30 min back! So one hour every morning and evening!) then work from home starting at 9am, I finish at 5pm to do the nursery pick up/dinner/bath then usually finish working betweem10pm-12am (should be finishing a report right now!)
It is tiring but feasible: good childcare, comprehensive and flexible boss/clients (when baby is sick!) good team, and online grocery shopping!!
And when it comes to cleaning... Weekends or nights! (I have a month of ironing to catch up with!)
The key is: not stressing out! As long as kids are fed and have clean clothes to go to school and are happy- it's all that matters.
If the house is somewhat clean but untidy, no biggy.
And if you miss a work deadline once in a while because of your DCs, it shouldn't be a huge issue! As long as your job isn't about saving lives, it's fine! :)

I have my family to look after DD before and after school. My mum used to be a childminder who worked 7 til 7 with one pre schooler including over school holidays so yes it can be done.

Personally people who say they can't get a job during school hours really annoy me - just get childcare, stop making excuses not to work. Why should it be a low paid, low hours job? I know lots of mums with degrees who work in asda because its easy around the kids,. They say there are no family friendly jobs, FFS they could have gotten a graduate level job, 9-5 so they still had the evenings with their kids and weekends, worked their way up and been able to afford childcare.

Or get your DH to stay at home, why should it be the mother? I know a woman with no family around on either side. She works full time, her DH part time and when he's at work they use a nursery. My Dsis lives abroad and has just returned to work, again she has no family around but uses childminders. It's do-able.

This thread baffles me.

"This thread baffles me."

Have you actually read any of the thread though whiskers?

"Or get the DH to stay at home. Why should it be the mother?"

Er, presumably because he's a significantly higher earner. By the sound of it, all 4 DC are in private schools. How likely is it that the OP will just walk into a job that pays for that?

"I have my family to look after DD before and after school"

That's great, but the OP does not and she has 4 DC, not one.

"Just get childcare"

Some people struggle with guilt about doing this, especially if they don't absolutely have to.

It sounds to me as if the DH in this situation prefers his wife at home. Even if he doesn't actually articulate this, it has been the deal so far and he has got used to the dynamic. The OP knows this and disrupting the status quo can be difficult. She might want to go back to work yes, but not at the expense of creating a rift in her marriage. Maybe it's more about this than any specific practicalities?

OP, have re-read your posts. lots of posters have questioned your high standards (cooked breakfast, cleaning, after school activities etc). All those things are what makes parenting into a job - I'm going g to assume you do all that because it matters to you - in which case, fine.

Same with the way you describe your relationship with your dh - it's very easy for us to read about a man who runs a business but can't operate a washing machine, who you conside less reliable than a babysitter, and who's basically belittling your needs and ambitions, and decide he needs to change. Only you know whether you relationship works and what is good about it and whether it is fulfilling for you to be part of this dynamic.

However you wouldn't have started this thread if you were 100% ok with how things are. it seems to me that you need to start creating a bit of space in your life, regardless what you fill it with. So the key question is: what are you ready or will g go let go of? How can you start storing up some physical and mental energy so you can access your vision, creativity and resources? Can you perhaps decide that, starting tomorrow, a cooked breakfast is a weekend treat and during weekdays it's toast all around - and stay in bed an hour longer? Can you allow yourself to make quick meals - a pasta with ready sauce, which takes 15 minutes? Can you sit down with your older dcs and have a frank discussion about which chores they will take on?

All of this you can start doing tomorrow, you don't need to have a job to start making changes that will make you start realising that actually - you can be a full time parent and have activities that doesn't involve domestic work or chauffeuring.

The other suggestion I have is to start reaching out to the working mums around you. If where you live is anyway like here, you probably don't speak to them much, and yet I'm sure there are some who you would like to know better, who you feel might be helpful/friendly. Reach out and ask to have a drink/coffee, ask real people in your own world how they manage! A couple of mums in my dds school did that recently (some informally, other asked me to coach them) and their concerns were very similar to yours. I was super happy to share my experience and you know what - you can never have too many friends :)

Mummyworth, I grew up in much the same way and I remember it quite differently. My mum was always very clear with me that I should never, ever stop working for the sake of the dcs and this since I was very young. I knew from an early age that, while she loved us fiercely, she always felt caged and diminished.
My dad was a high earner and in many ways a great father and husband, however theirs was never a marriage of equals, my mum always resented having to ask my dad for "permission" to buy stuff for herself, she doesn't have a pension so has been fully dependent on him forever. When things were rocky she had no choice but swallowing her pride and sticking around.

My brothers grew up with the expectation that a woman will tend to all their physical and emptional needs with no regards for her own. It's done wonders for their own relationships (not).

I am not for a moment suggesting that op is in the same situation. All I'm saying is that you are literally describing how the patriarchy works. You just cannot assume it is the "best" choice for a family

It sounds like you're not under financial pressure to work, so do something that excites you! Yoga instructor sounds great, you could do classes or 1-2-1 etc. Especially if you have a health background people might really appreciate that. I work in school hours I love it, I can't imagine not working whilst the children are at school. You forget how much of a boost you get from being seen professionally for your skills when you return to work. It's nice to be seen as something else than someone's mum. You could always retrain if you fancy doing something new and take your time to find something you love.

AKAmyself you are absolutely right. Please don't misunderstand me that I think all woman SHOULD stay home and I don't believe that's my parents view either. I'm so sad for your mum that she wasn't happy in her situation and that that had a knock on effect to you and your brothers. I suppose it's about empowering the OP. My mum always made it clear she was very happy. She worked before and then again when I grow up and I noticed in the post the lady didn't say "I'm so desperate to go back to work" she was saying people were asking her if she was going back. I just wanted her to know that IF SHE WANTED to stay home a little longer then that was perfectly ok as well. It's what works for them as a family. I think if she is honest with herself she knows what she wants to do and whatever that is she will be able to make it work. x

Before and after school clubs, weekend or night work? I work 2 12 hour shifts, partner works 4 nights. I work the 2 days hes off

Lone full time professional parent (not the big bucks salary end either). No family or support network at all. No nanny/gardener/dog walker/cleaner etc.
Good childminder/before/after school care. Very organised. Meals planned in advance/bulk cook/freeze. Multiple tasks completed when out going to/returning from music, sports etc. Not convenience or processed food either. From toddler age child has been brought up to help to - lay the table, put clothes away, clear table, tidy toys away.

My eldest starts school in september. It's not too bad at the moment because they are both in nursery and it's open 7-7 every day except BHs.
(Obviously costs a fortune).
I've made it VERY clear to dh that he's going to have to start work later three times a week. He grumbled a bit but spoke to his boss and it is broadly agreed in principle.

It's very, very hard work. Not a life I would choose if I had the choice. I know some people would say "there is always a choice" , but dh loves his job, it's a vocation and he changes lives for the better every day. But not paid enough to survive in London on one salary. That's the choice.

There are benefits as well as drawbacks, but on balance I think my life ranges between "bearable" and "absolute hell, simply can't go on".

I only have two kids but no family support and since dh and I work full time, are both exhausted and have no social life, we don't rely on friends.

I've taken the brunt of the time off for sickness and school events, he has covered school hols. My employers have been brilliant but I work long hours on weekdays and am stressed to the eyeballs to earn/maintain that goodwill.

Have usually had a cleaner. Kids eat crappy food because I have had to delegate something and dh has a very limited repertoire. Kids have never done homework, never excelled at school, never been able to do extra activities.

The best it ever got was when we invested in a nanny. She was incredible, almost made life worth living for a while. She took them to swimming lessons for the first time and I breathed a sign of relief when they got their 25m. They can't ride bikes still. I hate that they seem so neglected compared to a lot of kids. They wait for me until late at night if necessary, to talk over their days.

We're saving up like mad so that we can step off the treadmill at some point. I blame myself at times for being so miserable but life is a slog. I know others have it a lot worse and try to be grateful for what we've got.

I think there is a lot wrong with our lives but I have had to accept that you have to pick one of a limited number of options. I have single mum friends who seem like saints in comparison.

For various reasons, I'm in the process of deciding whether to give up work and be FT SAHM. I think OP has shown her DCs a hardworking role model and 'been there' for them. It sounds like an effective set up that has worked for the family. She has perhaps played to her strengths as a highly effective parent.

I farm out my DCs to nursery/wraparound because I suck at parenting - I'm much more effective at my job.

A good way to get back into work is to get a regular slot volunteering in a local charity or community group.

You need to plan. Working mums are often really organised and use technology and timesavers to their advantage. You don't have to outsource anything except perhaps childcare. I don't have a cleaner/cook/handmaiden and my dh and I work 40-60hr weeks.

Simple: an army of people to ensure I can work full time and not die of exhaustion. Nanny, nursery, cleaner. It's expensive and I'm incredibly privileged.

Interesting thread. Despite not really needing to I've always worked because it's important for my own identity. Nannies when younger and now after school care plus holiday clubs. Cleaner and online shopping plus top ups at weekend and many trips to local coop for forgotten items! It's only worth it if you want to work - it does cause friction, slightly untidy house and scrambled together meals. It's a better set up for 'me' not sure the family would say the same

Personally I don't manage it very well.
I work 40 to 50 hours per week, husband works about 40 hours. Two children.
House is permanently trashed.
However, all of us are fed well - only have ready meals once per week (DS1 is out most of he evening one day per week, so it's easier) and I make interesting, balanced packed lunches for everyone except for that one day when they have school dinners and we buy lunch. Takeaways only once per fortnight.
Laundry all done etc. and kids are clean and tidy.
I don't beat myself up about the house, although it does sometimes depress me and only closest friends and relatives ever come in. But have no help and no money to employ anyone to help and not enough energy to do it on top of everything else.

A nanny and a cleaner. It seems fairly simple when you are doing it. The thought of it is often far worse and far more complicated than reality

Like trelawney above, I'm a lone parent working FT and the trick IS being really organized, using wrap around childcare and a cleaner where possible and recognizing in all of it that you won't really have much time for yourself, hobbies etc.

These threads come up all the time and they are a bit frustrating. If you have to work you find a way to make it work and juggle everything, even if it's not ideal, tiring and a compromise.

Having the option not to work is a luxury. So is making life decisions that impact on one's ability to work, like having 4 children. In the end not everyone enjoys the largesse of a partner's salary.

I have managed to build my career because DH is extremely supportive and we're happy to outsource domestic work where we can.

The household runs very smoothly and DH is actually happier for taking a more active role in things.

I'm one of those who finds it strange that you wouldn't want to work at all outside the home, especially if children are at school most of the day. I also think it maintains gender inequality as it's usually the woman staying home with no financial independence and perpetuates it through role modelling to children. I work full time with no local family support. Breakfast club run from 7:30am & clubs after school until 6:30pm, however I choose to work a mix of longer and shorter days so I can do the school run some days. Possible to sacrifice salary for tax free childcare vouchers. Take time of sick when ill. When children are ill, taking other leave. Mix of annual or unpaid parental leave during school holidays and holiday clubs. You can shop online or buy smaller amounts of food as needed. When I wasn't working I filled the time with things I don't bother about now - rarely iron for example, when I was at home I was ironing everything. I also have an experience of more time the more I'm up to, rather than less. Totally doable.

Another thing that this thread has highlighted is that once children become school age, childcare becomes much more tricky logistically. You can no longer just drop them at nursery knowing it's open to 6.30 pm all year round. However, just paying for wraparound school and holiday care is vastly cheaper than paying all day care all year round, so this is the point where, if you've been a WOHP while they were pre-school age, you feel the financial benefit and take the logistical hit. If on the other hand you only decide to go back to work when your children are school age, I can see that the logistics seem insurmountable (and it probably seems pricey too if you've never paid for childcare)

Not making any judgement here, just pointing out why IME a lot of women who decide at this point to return to the workplace feel they need to restrict themselves to school hours term jobs, which of course are hard to come by and therefore it's a vicious circle.

Having had 2 toddlers simultaneously in nursery, when they started school it felt like payback time! We were no longer spending the equivalent of one salary on nursery fees. Having got through that, I felt I could handle anything!

Full time academic. Am in a bizarrely "lucky" situation - one DC now 13, one ex DH and a current DH - all academics and we get along. Holidays are easy except we all travel for work - which is my logistical nightmare - DC is used to "travel" from one home to anor (tho hilarious when all school shirts end up in one home, and pants in anor...). Never could afford child care/nappy/ so nightmare years was when school ends 3.50 and we had lectures/meetings. Sometimes sitting in black cabs looking at meter going to £30 as had to rush to school; on ly once did ex and I get wires crossed and school rang to say DC was still not picked up at 5.30 pm! It gets better when they became independent which he did last year!