How do working mums do it?

[magicat]

I've been at home with our 4 DC for 12 years. Now that they're all in school a couple of people have asked me, "What do you do all day?" and "Are you returning to work now then?"

I'm not against the idea of returning to work, (even though DH tells me not to bother), but I doubt I'd get a job that fits within school hours. DH doesn't get in until 7.30 / 8pm and often travels as well. When I try and think through the logistics of it all, I wonder how it would actually work because -

• We have no family support around
• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
• Who would get the kids to school?
• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)
• What about school holidays?
• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate
• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush
• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner
• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is
• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

If anyone else is in my position i.e. no family support, a fair few DC and a DH with very minimal input into the day-to-day running of things, could I please ask how you made returning to work "work" and are you permanently exhausted and overwhelmed?

Yep I'm agreeing with what you are suggesting @MiddleMaryJayne but I don't think that in every home every couple have to split everything down the middle.
If you expect to split EVERYTHING equally then by that logic OP must go out and work a similar amount to her husband and bring in a similar amount of income.

I think it's wrong to have to calculate how to split chores I think they should be able to balance the money-making duties with the household duties without it turning into "well I did all the cooking and washing up this week!"/"well I worked a 60 hour week with a 2 hour commute!" type of argument.

Same as working Dads?

Actually, I do know a woman with four kids and a very high flying civil service career: her top tip was empty out the book bags, sign the letters and make sure the PE kits etc. are ready for the next day AS SOON AS THEY GET IN THE DOOR.

Imagine are your DC quite small still?

When I look back to my house when my DC were small, it's nothing like now.

My sitting room was full of toys!

Mine are 13 and 9 now and it's a lot easier. When there are babies and toddlers about, it's all more tricky.

I only have two kids. We had reasonable local schools with after school and holiday care. I did have to leave work at 3pm and get a cab to collect DD2 from nursery for a while though, I worked flexi hours and used to start at 6.30am full time.DH also worked very locally when the girls were young and took them to school. The DDs did a lot of after school stuff which I generally took them to.

We pretty much let the housework go and just did the bare minimum. Shopping was delivered.

Looking back, I don't know how I coped, especially in the early days. If you have 4 kids you must always be busy anyway.

Actually, I do know a woman with four kids and a very high flying civil service career: her top tip was empty out the book bags, sign the letters and make sure the PE kits etc. are ready for the next day AS SOON AS THEY GET IN THE DOOR.

This is probably a great tip but I also can't see why, if the father also lives with them, he couldn't do all this!

In my case, you accept that the house is not going to be as clean and tidy as you might like and lower your standards, that your DC are not going to get home-cooked meals every night, they will be doing their homework in the evenings when they probably should be in bed, your weekends are spent doing cleaning/shopping etc rather than fun family stuff....

They manage because they have supportive partners who value them as more than just cooks, cleaners and childcare. Your set up sounds very unfairly balanced and you're effectively the family drudge. Why is your DH hardly there? I'm sure he could get a job closer to home/with fewer hours.

her top tip was empty out the book bags, sign the letters and make sure the PE kits etc. are ready for the next day AS SOON AS THEY GET IN THE DOOR.

I do exactly this. The older 2 also empty their own lunch boxes and dd1 washes them. She makes her own lunch most days and for her little sister sometimes and makes cereal for herself and her younger 2 siblings most days. She's 9 and perfectly capable of doing these things herself. It saves me loads of time in the morning, especially when I get back from work 1am, I need an extra hour of sleep.

Yes my DCs are a baby, age 5 and age 7. I don't know how I managed with the older two DCs when I was at work but being at home is not really easier. I found when I was at work I felt I deserved some time to relax - or there was a feeling of achievement. Now it's just endless and I feel I'm getting nowhere. It's hard to stay sane when DCs are constantly asking for drinks or arguing or have homework

I managed by getting a v part time job that had flexibility - I started work after the kids were dropped at school, DH did one of the pick ups and/or a friend would do it.

They did go to holiday club during the hols (though they moaned about that) .

Imagine I started making them serve themselves at about 6...you've got to get out of the habit of waiting on them. Arrange it so it's easy for them to get a drink.

Probably the kids could do more but I feel like I have to pick my battles and sometimes it's easier to just do it yourself. The eldest is 12 and quite independent now though. DH is usually very preoccupied with work and I can't see that altering any time soon.
Even though I have a cleaner in twice a week, I'm still picking up / cleaning a lot anyway as 6 people make a mess more than twice a week! If I was at work, it would be like a bombsite probably.

I did it with three. Fairly demanding job with some travel. DH job even more demanding and lots of travel. I more or less took the hit not him (and yes that is a feminist issue).

Basically it worked because I never gave up work in the first place so by the time we hit the school years (which in terms of childcare are far worse than daycare years imo - constant requests to go into the school, early finishes, holidays, summer camps finish at 3 etc) I had built up a reserve of goodwill in the company so they were happy to let me work from home/be flexible.

We did a mixture of someone picking them up from school and bringing them home/after school club etc. When they were sick it was immensely stressful. Usually I could rely on dh to juggle stuff around but I do remember one critical meeting I was chairing - people coming in from all over the country, it really couldn't have gone ahead without me as I had designed the new program and was pretty much unveiling the mechanics of it and getting everyone on board. DH was away and I prayed that whole week that no one would get sick as I had no back up.

I also made friends in every school with other mums and we often helped each other out. These were SAHMs as well as WOHMs. Often I would ask a friend to pick up if I was travelling and she would do the same if she was away (she didn't work outside the home) we both joked that we would each build up credit with the other like a bank - and then our husbands who built up no credit, would withdraw it when we were away (and that is a feminist issue too).

So basically, you pay a lot for childcare and feel quite stressed about it a lot of the time. I imagine it is a lot easier if you have a partner who really can do 50%

Oh and had a cleaner and sent laundry out.

When I am at home, the house stays the way I left it when the kids are at school. All the messing up occurs after 4pm. If you worked school hours, that would not change except for the fact that you would be tidying while knackered from work and would not have the option to do a bit tomorrow while they're at school. You would also have things like washing to catch up on.

I think that, if you do want to work, your DH would have to step up in every way. You probably don't mind doing everything now because you are here but, once you are not, you will find it incredibly difficult. If you both decide it's best for you to work, then you need to set some ground rules now rather than further down the line when you realise things are not working.

I would agree that division of labour is a feminist issue but I don't see the point in calling out the OP for not using gender-neutral language.I mean the whole point of still having a feminist movement is that, among other inequalities, the division of labour is often not equal so if you ask fathers this question (about how to manage) you're likely (from some of them at least) to get an answer that doesn't really tally with reality and doesn't ensure the kids' PE kit is washed and ready to go on a Sunday night. What is the point in pretending otherwise? Is equality really going to come about by us all talking as though it already exists? Is it not better to work off of reality, and admit the fact that if you want to know how a family can function with two full time workers, you've got a better chance of finding out if you ask the woman than if you ask the man?

Could your DH be telling you not to bother going back to work because he doesn't want to take on half of what you do at the moment? If that's the case then he's not saying that so you don't feel you have to go back to work, he's saying it because he likes the status quo, regardless of whether it's best for you or not.

I think it does make a difference if you are working somewhere where you have worked for a while/pre-DC as opposed to starting a new job. As a PP has put it, you do build up goodwill that you can use in terms of flexibility (I know I have plus my manager is in exactly the same situation as me so is totally understanding).

I have been extremely fortunate in terms of illness (maximum of 1/2 days per year) and I do realise that helps a lot. However, on those occasions, me and DH have a frantic discussion in the morning about who needs to be at work most that day and the other one works from home (again, I think having the facility to work from home if necessary is extremely useful).

The children adjusted very quickly to having a nanny. And the nanny has more time and patience for them than I did when I was a SAHM as she's not with them 24/7 like I was so they've thrived. We all have.

It is also the nanny's job to tidy up any mess the children have made with her. So.. less tidying for us to do evenings and weekends. I'm always amazed at how tidy she leaves the place when we get home, she is an absolute godsend.

It helps DH cooks and does more than his share of tidying (I tend to do more of the invisible stuff - managing finances/childcare/child-related things etc) - we are a very good team.

I still feel I am spending lots of time with the children only it's more quality time now. Before I was always looking for ways to get away from them as I was desperate for a break, now I look forward to seeing them and we are all closer as a result. It's changed everything for the better.

I was always SOOO busy when I was a SAHM… honestly, when you have less time to shop/cook/clean - you do it more efficiently! You don't browse in the shop while you're doing the groceries, don't half watch iplayer while preparing dinner etc.

I'm better at the house stuff (and the parenting IMO) when I work, because when you don't have all week to do stuff, it doesn't take all week! If you have less time with the kids, you make the time you have count more.

Logistically: school based clubs & after school clubs, running up a good "bank" of people you've helped out who help you out - e.g. I have someone to take DD to theirs then drop to brownies because I pick up both girls after work and drop them home.

I network whenever they take up a new hobby to see if there are lift share options

Where friends who have returned to work after being a SAHM for a long time seem to fall down is they call in more favours than they return, and quite frankly I don't have time to be helping out with someone who isn't reciprocating - make sure you're offering when you can if you're going to be asking when you can't!

And also, kids don't have to keep up all hobbies forever. DD dropped one this year because it just wasn't working logistically, she's fine about it, she has other hobbies.

And the cleaning: if I'm out of the house and not making trays of flapjacks that never get into lunchboxes cause I eat them ALL myself while still warm there's not so many cups being filled with tea/coffee, no lunch to clear up from, less ambitous home baking etc… so there's less cleaning anyway.

Generally speaking I can't see why it should be assumed a father would be preoccupied with work and that unquestioned, but mothers not.

Just as with my mum, my dad has always had a great career but also always been a fantastic, involved dad.

You do sound a bit of a slave really, op. Key is that my dh and I work together, so it's not my job fitting in round his, etc, and our kids do a lot of the organising of their own stuff that you seem to do. We may also have lower standards round cleaning (life's too short).

Anyway - we have 3dc, we both work full time, no family within 150 miles. And the kids need driving to bus stop/school 6 miles away. Primary age child goes to after school club when needed. I get to work early, dh goes in late and leaves early. Kids sort all their own school stuff (we may verbally remind, we have timetable reminder of what needed when), and do backups if needed (we help and facilitate). We all participate in sports activities 3-6 days a week, so evenings are busy too. Laundry was a bugbear so we reorganised that so each person has their own basket (sorting when clean was the biggest issue) and does washing every 5 days in turn.

We have 2 dogs too and I walk them every morning before work. They get another evening walk/run with one of us, and dh walks them at lunchtime (they go to work with him).

If one of us is away with work, the other manages with extra after school care/breakfast club. Secondary kids go to library/cafe if necessary after school until can be collected.

DH mostly does the shopping while ferrying kids to activities (he usually has a run/walks dogs then too), several times a week as we eat a lot of fresh veg, and we like to get the end of day bargains too.

We use slow cooker and timer on oven, but either of us can make a freshly made meal from scratch in about 20 mins so we can get in, cook and feed the family in less than an hour if evening activities on.

Holidays - we take leave, send kids to grandparents for 1 week a year, muddle through, look after friends' kids the odd day and they for us, etc. This is the most hasslesome time!

We clean as we go and nag the kids to do their rooms.

It's busy, but we manage, and we're pretty happy most of the time. We spend a lot of time with our kids through sport and chatting (we almost always eat meals together). We expect our kids to be pretty self-sufficient, and to organise their own music practice, homework, etc. They're all doing great.

Teamwork - key.
We don't watch telly much at all.

Great post Impresionante.