How do working mums do it?

[magicat]

I've been at home with our 4 DC for 12 years. Now that they're all in school a couple of people have asked me, "What do you do all day?" and "Are you returning to work now then?"

I'm not against the idea of returning to work, (even though DH tells me not to bother), but I doubt I'd get a job that fits within school hours. DH doesn't get in until 7.30 / 8pm and often travels as well. When I try and think through the logistics of it all, I wonder how it would actually work because -

• We have no family support around
• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
• Who would get the kids to school?
• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)
• What about school holidays?
• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate
• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush
• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner
• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is
• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

If anyone else is in my position i.e. no family support, a fair few DC and a DH with very minimal input into the day-to-day running of things, could I please ask how you made returning to work "work" and are you permanently exhausted and overwhelmed?

When my mother worked with four children full time, she employed a cleaner three times a week. There were no breakfast/after school clubs but we were able to get ourselves to and from school.
Time off for children's sickness should be shared regardless of who earns the most. It's really not fair on an employer otherwise. My father tended to take time off work if we were off sick as he was a lot more senior in his job and was therefore able to do that more easily most of the time.
I doubt that she earned that much after paying for cleaning etc but she thought it important to have a career not only for herself but also to set a good example to her children. In those days, plenty of girls didn't try hard at school because they didn't see much point if they weren't going to work after having children. I think that there is an argument for that even today.

I have 4 children and it really is just a case of organisation. Yes it is tiring!!
And also depends upon ages of children. Lots of schools have after school clubs and can care for children till around 6pm.
I worked 3/4 days a week. Whichever one of us finish first would pick the children up, I don't drive. I'd make sure the tidying was done night before so in the morning I get kids up, make breakfast and whilst they are eating I will go make beds, put a wash on and clean toilets, hang a load out if the weather is good. Get myself ready. Take the kids to school or nursery then work.
Get kids from after school.
Go home get washing in, put tea on. Run Hoover round upstairs. Put clothes away or iron uniforms for the next day. Kids sat at table doing homework. Empty washing machine clothes in tumble, tea, showers, reading books, bed for children. I always wash up after tea, clean kitchen and quick mop or Hoover downstairs if needed. So it's tidy for the next day so it never really gets too bad. Bathroom gets a proper clean at the weekend.

I work full time, single parent with two primary aged kids. I use before and after school club. One or two days a week I work from home so do most of the chores then. I have a flexible job and work regionally so don't have an office as such so I will get to school before 5.30 and then work from home most evenings.

It is fine. School hols are covered by me or their father or grandparents. I even get to the gym once a week in the evening using a babysitter and once a week on my working from home day.

Food is picked up every day and I ought to get it delivered really. A man comes once a fortnight to do the garden for me and I am looking for a cleaner.

Winter is bit of a drag but in the lighter months I feel like it is entirely doable. A flexible, well paid job is key.

I've always worked ,I think that's key really so I have never been the default parent and we have always shared sick days. He tended to do drop offs and I tend to pick up in the evening but we both cover each other when needed. Its all about team work.

None of this is rocket science and it's all perfectly doable.

Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15 = Child minder or after school club

• Who would get the kids to school? = A child minder or breakfast club

• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next) = You can take unpaid leave to care for dependants or you use annual leave and you and your DH split it according to your situation

• What about school holidays? = mix of annual leave and holiday clubs

• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate = other parents on a rota / child minder / taxi service

• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush = on line shopping / shopping weekends or evenings. Yes dinner can be a rush. Batch cook and fill your freezer

• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner - hard work but people manage.

• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is = again people manage just fine

• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing. - Depends on the CM

In fairness with 4 DC and the after school activities you might be better with a nanny and it might work out cheaper than a CM for 4. An Au Pair might be an even better option as they would do house work as well and could cover some of those sick days and school holiday

And there are term time only jobs out there such as TA / School receptionist etc. Not 100s of them but they do exist.

catgirl - In respect to illness You can take unpaid leave to care for dependants or you use annual leave and you and your DH split it according to your situation This just isn't true for the vast majority of people, maybe you are lucky enough to have an employer that doesn't mind if you just don't show up with no notice or lets you take your holiday without booking in advance you must know that this isn't the norm.

I wouldn't have my job if I rang up and said I wasn't coming in if my child was sick in the night and couldn't go to school and it would be unreasonable of my to expect my employer to put up with it.

It's not true at all that the vast majority of employers won't let people take unpaid leave or annual leave to cover sickness SandyDenny. Many do although I think it would be unreasonable to expect to cover all sick days. Legally, employers have to give parents some time off if their children are sick even if it is just to make alternative arrangements.

What are you doing all day if you have to do uniforms etc inn the evening? I work full time, but have flexible working. Same as you, no family nearby at all. Organisation is the key, for everything. And sharing the holidays between you and DH. And not keeping kids off for every sniffle. I don't have a cleaner, just fit it around work. If you're all out of the house al, day, you're not messing it up!

Before and after school clubs and holiday clubs are essential. We don't have a nanny. I work full time with a 68 mile round commute, my husband travels and we have no other help. I have far less 'me time' since returning to work and we eat quite late because of the time we all get home. I don't get to sit down until after 10pm when the daily chores have been done. Most of the catch up jobs and shopping are done over the weekend after activities. My hours are slightly shorter (6 hours a day) to fit in with childcare and after school club and activities. Homework and reading gets done after tea and I make it relaxing and calm so we can enjoy the time together. When the DC are in bed that's when I sort the dishes, clean the kitchen and pop a wash on and prep for the next day. When the DC are off school sick I'm often poorly too if I've been up in the night with them so I stop at home. It's very stressful and a constant juggling act but people just get on with it as they have to.

So can I take it OP that you DONT have a pension as big as his.

And you DONT have any savings, except those that he could withdraw at any time.

And you DONT own any of the business that you have spent 13 years of you life building.

I think you need to address theses issues right now. You and your children are very vulnerable.

I know you want to think that if you split up you would be OK. But if you read MN you will see that the vast majority of wives and children in that situation are left pretty much high and dry.

SandyDenny

It's nothing to do with having nice employers and everything to do with employment law

www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants/your-rights

I only have one, but DH works from home 3 days a week and the school provides a bus (which the council is threatening to remove, so it will be another story if that happens).
Those 3 mornings he takes DS to the bus, the other 2 DS goes to breakfast club.
On 2 of his at home afternoons he picks DS up from the bus, 1 afternoon DS goes to afternoon club. I work irregular hours (but same every week, and full time), so I can finish in time to meet the bus on the remaining 2 afternoons.
We have no family support nearby at all, so we're great full for the bus at the moment.

Doesn't sound like your DH has much to do with his family? If you go back to work, and there is no reason why you can't have a full time career, your DH will need to be available for the school run, early finish from work to prepare meals, time off when DC's get sick. How does he cope when you're out for the evening as needs to look after his children?

Why don't you have any savings - I assume your DH has some?

We both work full time, and have two kids, share taking time off if kids are ill, and taking leave during holidays, have an after school nanny who does oversee homework, a cleaner, and a very messy house most of the time. Have to do extra activities at weekends, can't organise those during the week. Although music teacher comes to house after school. DH orders online food and cooks, we both move the laundry around when we remember. Iron the uniforms on Sunday night. Think realistically you have to be prepared to compromise on some things, it depends what is important to you.

To be honest I think that it would be a massive change. Not only you being out of the home but your dh being MORE than just supportive. He would actually need to do shit! And after so long in the set up you describe it would be a learning curve. I have two kids but younger than yours and we both work full time. Yet my job is still viewed (by him) as flexible and I do all of the school stuff. Though this may not be a feminist argument, it probably is. Women step up and lots of men- not all- carry on as they are.

Both work ft in demanding jobs. Breakfast club and after school club each day, one still at nursery. Cleaning is difficult and am waiting for September when youngest will get 30 hours and we can afford a cleaner. I'm so exited about it. Otherwise, online shopping and almost no life. We often don't sit down at home until 9.30-10 after taking kids to late clubs (start at 6pm) and then tea and making lunches for the next day and trying to remember what they have to bring in. Unfortunately my other half works further away than I do so I generally have to do all drop offs and pick ups despite both working similar hours. One of the things I fantasise about is a cook - I would love someone to present me with a plate of food in the evening. I often just can't be bothered to eat by the time we've finished everything we need to get ready for the next day.

I'm a lone parent of 3dcs & we're out of the house at 7:30am. Excellent childcare is key - I've chosen a childminder before and after school who offers a home and away from home environment rather than a homework club. She feeds them an evening meal so by the time I collect at 5:30 and done h/w and got them ready for bed they might only want toast/crumpets etc. I also have a cleaner just to ensure the kitchen, floors & bathrooms are done. If I could afford it I'd have a gardener.

But I will admit it's bloody exhausting - my job requires work significant out of hours too - and not having a partner to do their share is really tough - and I have to say if I was in your fortunate position I wouldn't choose to work unless you really felt personally fulfilled in some regard by doing so. If you did decide to return to work it would surely need to be dependent on your H pulling his weight at home and/or needing the requisite help...and you also need to earn enough to make it economically viable.

There ARE jobs that offer school only hours if you want to avoid the issue of childcare altogether but they don't pay particularly well - but it's a toe back in the water...if that's what you want.

I have 2 kids and work full time. It really is a case of 'you have to'.

Being organised is the key, making tea and freezing portions so you don't have to make from scratch in the evening, making sandwiches for me and the kids in bulk and freezing them (I have no idea what I'd do without my freezer)

I do have a childminder and drop them off in the morning and pick up on my way home from work.

As for cleaning the house, I do it as i go along during the week, clean the shower whilst I'm in it, Hoover and dust whilst the kids are in bed etc etc

Just do whatever works for you. I was a SAHP when my kids were little and I look back fondly on those years. The unpaid work of keeping family life on track is most definitely work after all!
I went back to work three days a week when my youngest was in his last year of pre-school. It took some adjusting as I start at 8, so my husband for the first time in years had to take the kids to school. We did try breakfast club but it ended up a waste of money as the kids were signing up to sports clubs before school anyway.
We needed the extra income but I also wanted to be back at work. We are lucky in that the school offers lots of clubs and afterschool club. I also do childcare swaps with friends.

I doubt anyone cares what you do really, so whatever is best for you and your family.

I do feel I am drowning in family administration tasks sometime though.

I know schools that charge £5 pd per dc for breakfast club and all they get is toast or cereal and juice!

Mine is £2 per dc pd.

After school is £18pd per dc.

As some others have said, it is doable, but there is a wide variety of how, especially depending on your job, your hours and motivation.

As a teacher on a 0.8 contract, I don't work school holidays, but parents evenings are a problem. I'm lucky enough to have a good friend who I share some pick up/drop offs with. Kids do after school clubs and childminder picks them up. They have school dinners and I just do sandwiches at home. For me and DH, I tend to cook meals for 4, so I have leftovers and don't have to cook every night. We have a cleaner and I shop online. DH does clothes washing as he can do that early morning/late night and it was killing me trying to do it.

Most of the time is good, some is great, occasionally it sucks. Remember nothing is perfect and you don't have to make a forever - you are allowed to change your mind!

It's also worth noting that working gets me out of a lot of stuff - I can't do the fruit rota or walk them to church or help out with rehearsals or sell tickets for the PTA quiz (of course I'm immensely grateful others can!), but if you do these now, you don't have try and fit them in too. You'll also find that kids can take on more responsibilities and help out with chores (especially if there's 4 of them!) e.g. Mine can get out breakfast things and get up and dressed in the morning with minimal supervision, and I'm hoping that will increase as they get older!

I hope that helps!

Find a job in a school. A lot of dinner ladies start off with ten hours a week, which leaves you plenty of time for school drop offs, pick ups, clubs and shopping. After moving to a new area, we had no support for the last ten years. Not that we had any before that either. We have two children who are now 18 and 14

Agree the idea you're free once they start school is a myth. I have two at school and one at home/nursery and they average about two events each a week parents are supposed to attend (or be subtly told you're a shit mum by the other parents) within school hours. I feel I spend the entire day walking up and down to school with my youngest (who's hardly allowed any time at nursery because he's poorly behaved).

I have two at school and one at home/nursery and they average about two events each a week parents are supposed to attend

That is NOT normal/typical!

I've not had to miss any of DDs school stuff, I have 2 of them up there and I've been to every one of their awards/performances/fayres/meetings (and I work). I've been up there maybe 10/12 times since September!

(other than pick up/drop off obvs )

seriously what are you doing up there twice a week? Are you attending all the assembleys even if your child isn't mentioned or something? how are there two "events" a week? those poor teachers when do they plan?