How do working mums do it?

[magicat]

I've been at home with our 4 DC for 12 years. Now that they're all in school a couple of people have asked me, "What do you do all day?" and "Are you returning to work now then?"

I'm not against the idea of returning to work, (even though DH tells me not to bother), but I doubt I'd get a job that fits within school hours. DH doesn't get in until 7.30 / 8pm and often travels as well. When I try and think through the logistics of it all, I wonder how it would actually work because -

• We have no family support around
• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
• Who would get the kids to school?
• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)
• What about school holidays?
• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate
• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush
• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner
• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is
• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

If anyone else is in my position i.e. no family support, a fair few DC and a DH with very minimal input into the day-to-day running of things, could I please ask how you made returning to work "work" and are you permanently exhausted and overwhelmed?

Thankyou again. Sorry I missed yesterday's replies. I think some PPs have hit the nail on the head actually because realistically, DH isn't likely to shift his behaviour. On a basic level, I don't think he's ever used the washing machine, things like that. He's often only here half the week. Even if I did get a nanny for after school, it would still fall to me to manage her. The kids are in independent schools and they're not geared to wraparound care. Most people use tutors for the 11 plus entry exams, but I've done it myself so far and it's stressful. It seems that where there are both parents working, they both pick up on what there is to do and get on with it.

Op, are there any jobs going in your dc school? Mine are at independent school and many of the parents are members of the teaching or support team.

Don't you have an out of hours school club that could wrap care from 8am to 6pm?

Oh, didn't read your last post.

magicat It's fine if you don't want to work but stop making excuses as they sound rather pathetic to anyone who does work.
My mother has four children and worked at a time when many men including my father didn't lift a finger in the house. She is always quite scathing of women with high earning DHs who say they can't work because it is actually a lot easier for high earners than everyone else because they can employ cleaners (we had one three times a week), and other help e.g. nannies. Also, I would hope that your DH would be more helpful if you did work now that we live in the 21s century. Considering that you can afford help that shouldn't involve him doing much.

I'm in a similar situation to you op, 5 dcs and a dh who earns more than enough to support me as a sahp. As such the lion's share of parenting and housework falls to me although he does pull his weight at weekends.
I also have no family for childcare, before and after school clubs wouldn't work (don't run late enough for ft hours) and not sure the hassle of childminders/nanny would be worth it on the income I would initially bring in.
I am planning to go back to work when youngest starts secondary school at which point dh will scale back his work. Our income will reduce but it's doable and will enable him to semi-retire. I am taking on some voluntary work, getting some training etc. in the meantime.

I'm in a fairly similar situation. It is doable: I have 3 Dc and no input from DH except at weekends due to his work hours. Family are around but not able/willing to help much so I take them out of the equation.

I do 2.5 days pw in the public sector profession which I trained for so earn reasonable money (£20K for 18 hours). Now we're out of London childcare is more affordable so the numbers do stack up.

I use a combination of breakfast/after school club, a lady that collects older D.C and brings them home (can supervise homework on that day) & childminder for the youngest. We still have 3 days of the wk when we can d after school activities/homework tho one of those we keep free. We also moved an activity to Saturday that we used to do after school.

Yes child sickness can be challenging. But by working part time I have leeway then to make up hours I've had to miss. Ultimately you are also legally entitled to unpaid 'carers leave' if needed.

School hols childminder will continue for youngest. Elder ones will do holiday playschemes/relatives/and childcare 'swaps' with other mum's plus my annual leave for some of it.

House stuff is a struggle but doable if part time and would/will be easier when I don't have a toddler at home on my non work days.

Envious of everyone with breakfast and after school clubs.... ! Not to mention the lady that makes meals in 15 minutes!

OP - please think about what you would like to do. What gets you excited? Not what your DH thinks you should do.

Have you got plenty of pension and savings? You can put £2880 into a pension annually, even if you're unemployed.

I have a few 15 minute meals. Some need thinking about the day before (have veg chopped etc, or set the oven to be hot when you walk in) whereas others are thrown together.

Pasta carbonara using fresh pasta:
Put a packet of lidl bacon lardons into a dry pan to fry
Turn on kettle
Slice an onion, add that to the pan once bacon is halfway cooked
In a jug, crack 2 eggs and add a good glug of double cream, decent grinding of pepper, mix well
Grate some parmesan cheese
Boil the pasta for 4 minutes (or use regular pasta for 12-15 and start it before the onion)
Strain pasta, keeping a cup of the boiling water
Toss in the bacon, onion and stir through
Add the liquid, stir well over a low heat, add some of the pasta water if needed to loosen it - you don't want eggs to curdle, just heat through and stiffen a little to a sauce
Serve

Can easily add mushrooms to the pan, or do it using chicken and mushrooms (can add a dash of white wine to the pan for flavor, if you use leftover cooked chicken it's a faster dish, tarragon is a nice herb to add to chicken versions). Chicken versions, or plain mushroom versions, both work well with rice instead of pasta.
A similar dish using prawns but not the creamy sauce, start with onion and garlic, add prawns (cooked or raw - only difference is a few extra minutes of cooking) and then some quartered tomatoes added to the pan to cook through.

Chicken fajitas are also fast -
Slice chicken into strips (can be done day before) and fry for 8-10 minutes. Add fajita seasoning and juice of a lime for 1 minute. Add 2 sliced peppers and a sliced onion, stir and cook for 3 more minutes. Meanwhile, heat wraps in microwave for 1 minute.

While the chicken has been cooking, you slice up the peppers, onion, then slice lettuce, tomatoes and grate cheese for table. Throw salsa and sour cream on table. Squish an avocado with a fork, add a pinch of chilli, some olive oil and lime juice, pinch salt - guacamole - or use a jar.

Serve.

Stir fries are also very fast - maybe 15-20 minutes. Using already cooked meat/fish can speed things up. And having veg chopped the night before means you can supervise arrival home chaos at the same time as cooking.

Or make your main sauce the day before to just heat up and cook fresh pasta/rice/potatoes. Like spag bol, curries, chilli, stews etc. Potatoes can cook in 10-15 minutes if you are going to make mash anyway - just chop them into smaller chunks to cook. You just get into the habit of immediately turning on the kettle when you walk in the door, and then using that to get something started. Empty bags and sort mail etc once you have things cooking.

Sauces like spag bol, chilli, loads of curries etc can all be made ahead of time and taste better - so I make those on a Sunday when I am already in the kitchen to use on a Monday often. And generally do at least 2 dinners worth in a batch, freezing one dinner portion for another night next week. That really helps.

I only have 2 dc but I work full time and so does dh. We have a great before and after school club, and a cleaner, but it is tough. I wouldn't be working if we could afford to drop a salary. Don't feel pressured to do anything that doesn't suit your family - it really is your choice. Good luck with whatever you decide.

It is NOBODY'S BUSINESS. If you're happy being at home, and can afford to, then do! Full stop. I can't stand the fact that other people think they have a right to interfere in something that might be working perfectly for a happy family. Fuck off to that!

I have three kids, DH works full time 40mins away and I work 4 days a week 1.25 hours away but work from home two days a week.

Mine are 11, 8 and 6. We use a childminder and the kids do as much homework as they can when with her, she is happy to facilitate this. Clubs etc have had to move in part to weekends in order to fit them in, in addition they are each limited to two after school clubs a week. We could not afford to do more in both financial and monetary terms!

My cleaning standards are very low and home cooked meals using the finest organic ingredients are not a reality most week days. Batch cooking in advance helps significantly, your freezer is your friend.

Kids are very self sufficient and make their own lunchboxes and get their own breakfasts. They also do chores, types of chores are dependent on age, and are very good at putting clothes in wash basket, sorting clean clothes and putting them away. We have a mass family tidy and clean up on Sunday before bedtime, homework is checked at this point too. Ironing is rarely done in this house!

Illness wise, unless they are emiting bodily fluids from either end or obviously too poorly then they go in with coughs/colds. We obey the 48hr rules with tummy bugs knowing how quickly they spread. We take in turns to take the day off if they are ill.

You have to view parenting as a partnership or it won't work.

For us it works because DH DORD input. If you want to work it's a reasonable expectation.
Location is important for me - I work locally (teacher) and have well placed child care.

I do work with a single mum who manages but I think she might have a red, blue and gold outfit and a cape in the back of her cupboard!

DORD! ?!?! DOES I mean!

Should add we don't have family close by to help and the holidays we play childcare relay 😂

MrsMontgomery YY we have a lady we know who cleans (business owner, entrepreneur, terrifying ... in case anyone wants to paint her as an exploited waif in a judge pants way). We don't go abroad on holiday - I'd rather have help cleaning for 2 hr a week than Spain, honestly! The money saved from going to a Parkdean resorts caravan bought in the sale saves my sanity more!

Holiday clubs for the holidays, childminder for after school and week-end full of activities for him. Now if the school has an inset day or is closed for something or other I rely on the kindness of other parents. If he is ill I can work from home. It's if I am ill that I am in a bind.....

5 children here.
We both always worked full time,.

Main solution lack of sexism - checked that out before we married. He did more work eg finding childcare than I did and we fixed that even before the first baby arrived! He taught me how to use his cooker and washing machine and how to hang clothes so they did not crease (he owned a house before I did) and I have been more than happy to be less domestically competent. I also earned 10x my children's father ultimately too - money earned by women tends to give them power and help ensure fairness at home.

On the points on the original list
We have no family support around - we don't either - we had to move hundreds of miles away from family for work. All 4 grandparents are now dead.

• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15; when we had under 3s and older ones we had someone who looked after the older ones in our house all day and then also collected the older ones from school and cooked their meal. When we just had the twins needing after school care we advertised locally for someone who collected them at 3 and looked after them until 6 and she also did Sunday mornings and most of the holidays.

• Who would get the kids to school? It has varied for us over the years. At one stage their father took one to school and I took the other 2 to their school coach (private schools with coach services yet another way private schools can make it easier for 2 working parents than some state schools). At another stage when one was at school in Kensington I would put the older one on her school coach and then take hte younger on the tube into London with me, drop her at school and go on to my work and their daily nanny collected her by car in the afternoon before getting the other other who got to a school coach stop (she took the school coach from age 4)

• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next) - they are not allowed to be isck in our famly. We are as hard as nails. Unless you are virtually dead you go to school and to work. If they were off sick then we still had the person at our home looking after younger ones so she took the older one. If it was the youngest off sick and they were old enough for at school - about 1 day every 5 years (we don't breed weak children in our family; if you have a pulse you are in school) then we tried the various ladies who had done after school care - so in other words a rota of about 5 people who could step in. These days you can hire emergency nannies on apps.

• What about school holidays? - younger one's daily nanny had older ones in holiday. Later when younger ones at school and no nanny the 3 - 6pm lady did the holidays. At another stage the older children all did 2 weeks of summer camp (non residential) whetehr they liked it or not and the oldest did 2 weeks at her school's non residential summer camp as well - so that was 4 weeks sorted out; then 2 week family holiday; then we just found an ex child minder or sixth former etc etc to help or one of us might have been home some days. I have never had a half term off work in 33 years of being a mother by the way!

• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate

In private schools you usually do the clubs at school. My oldest one was at Haberdashers and they had a late coach if you stayed for clubs an even a late late coach - on that one she got home about 6 so lots of school provision for clubs. Our daily nanny could also take to clubs and the 3 - 6 lady would also take the twins to swimming class they did for a while.

• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush

Why would women not men do food shopping! Even my father in the 1960s did food shopping. We had a system for a while where each family member including teenagers logged on to Tesco and put what they needed in the basket on line and I would check the kitchen list on which the cleaner would add if she needed polish etc and other things were added and then I just had to click to order - in fact their father did all of this for 10 years by the way - again lack of sexism being the key.... and then I had it delivered when our cleaner was here so she put it away, not us. Cooking - their after daily nanny and then the 3 - 6pm lady cooked dinner for all 5 and then we two ate as we chose later or if one of us was working late or out just got our own food which is absolutely wonderful and free and peaceful.

• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner

Really? Did your father vaccum? Mine did. Does your husband not have an arm and thus be able to vaccuum? It sounds like sexism is at the root of all your problems.

• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is

Not too bad. Eg i did both our tax returns and their father took all 5 children to the dentist for 17 years so I never had to think about dentists and he did not have to think about tax returns. Just divide jobs up fairly.

• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

Three of our children won music scholarships and their father and I are very musical, all 5 did 2 instruments etc. We did when they were aged 7 - 10 find it quite hard supervising practice particularly when an exam came up but for me accompanying the children on the piano almost every day has been one of my highlights of life as a parent particularly once they got very good so that was one thing I tried to prioritise but certainly more practice was done at weekends. We did not get our daily nanny or later our 3 - 6pm person to supervise music although we might have asked her to help. The 3 - 6 peron was very good at helping the twins with doing daily reading and doing their spellings and times tables which helped.

I have 1 DD and work 4.5 days, structured so I pick up from school 2 days a week. DD goes to after school club on the other 3 days, but does some activities at school on these days. She goes to Brownies straight from school at 6pm after a snack in the car - she's pretty tired after but not unbearably so! She has a swimming lesson at 6.30 one evening which works well for us. She has 2 activities on Saturday mornings. Homework is done across Sat pm / Sun / Mon after school depending what else we've got on.
I work 10 min drive from school so I drop before work.
Holiday clubs in school hols.

I don't think this would work with more than 1 or 2 DCs though, it would be too expensive.

Several people I know have got jobs at the school but they are not very well paid...

I have three children and have just returned to work after 10 years at home with the kids. I do the majority of school drop offs and pick ups and have managed by myself with all of that, juggling after school and weekend sport, managing the house etc while DH has been away for work for 1-2 weeks at a time. You have to be organised and it can be a finely tuned juggle at times, but being back at work is really rewarding and that makes it worth it. I can pick my children up late from school as they can go to the library and do homework after school. I will need to book them into holiday day camps during some school holidays as I don't have family who can help. They don't love that but I can make sure that our time together during school holidays is quality rather then me doing chores while they retreat into their technology for hours at a time.

Do some voluntuary work instead. It's almost impossible to hold a job down even when the kids are at school. There is always the dreaded call from school 'come and collect your child'. Even with two DDs at secondary school, it's still a pain as they go in by bus and there is no way they can make their way home due to lack of public transport.
I do work 4 days a week, but only a maximum of 4 hrs a day as a self employed domestic cleaner/gardener.
Keeps me busy, and I can still get other jobs done around the house.

Agree that the underlying principle is how you view your relationship, parenting and expectations of life from the outset.
Most people pair up with a partner of similar levels of ability, and many decide from the outset to take fairly equal responsibilities both in and out of the house. Not always easy or possible to split things exactly 50:50, but there's a huge spectrum between one partner having a high flying, high earning career while the other stays at home, and having an exactly equal split.
It's up to every couple to suss out what works for them and their family, but I suspect that the majority of couples in the 21 century want each partner to have a good balance in their life, so it shouldn't be surprising that we see fewer couples carrying out traditional roles of man being sole breadwinner while woman has all the domestic duties

I agree. I have a grandchild about whom I don't usually write as that's not my child and I respect confidentiality but in their case too just like in mine they both work and they both share things like dealing with childcare. If my father could hoover the house, empty bins, do the washing, get up with babies (and work full time as a doctor) in the 1960s I don't know what stops men in 2017 doing the same!

I haven't RTFT but OP don't feel pressured or let other people guilt you! They are probably only asking to make polite chit chat anyway. It sounds like you have a happy, busy fulfilled life and you don't need the extra money. (I apologise if if missed later posts). I'm sure you are doing a fantastic job.

If you do start not feeling busy enough there are all those very important jobs that keep communities running...be a guide/ scout leader, run for the town council, PTA, coach the kids football team, start a choir, volunteer at a national trust property, get involved in political or local issue campaigns, direct the town Christmas panto...whatever floats your boat!

Routine is your friend when working. We all leave the house at 7.30, DCs go to morning club (activists ,not breakfast) and after school club. I pick up at 5, take to activities twice a week, otherwise home for tea, homework, bath and bed. They have to sort their bags for school and activity the night before. After they are in bed (8.30ish) I will do washing, tidying and then start my own work. Cleaning is done at weekends, we muck in one of the mornings.

But yes, you use the words overwhelming and exhausting, it is for me. I work on Sundays too most weekends, btu have the benefit of no school holiday cover needed.