How do working mums do it?

[magicat]

I've been at home with our 4 DC for 12 years. Now that they're all in school a couple of people have asked me, "What do you do all day?" and "Are you returning to work now then?"

I'm not against the idea of returning to work, (even though DH tells me not to bother), but I doubt I'd get a job that fits within school hours. DH doesn't get in until 7.30 / 8pm and often travels as well. When I try and think through the logistics of it all, I wonder how it would actually work because -

• We have no family support around
• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
• Who would get the kids to school?
• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)
• What about school holidays?
• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate
• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush
• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner
• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is
• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

If anyone else is in my position i.e. no family support, a fair few DC and a DH with very minimal input into the day-to-day running of things, could I please ask how you made returning to work "work" and are you permanently exhausted and overwhelmed?

Depends on your hours i suppose.

I work 3 shifts a week, dd is currently in a sports club as it's half term here.

Grandparents help out when needed but I could manage without using breakfast and after school club to etc.

I only work 16 hours a week, anymore and I'd fall into difficulties. Plus I only have one dd which makes it easier.

It's doable though!

My youngest started in reception last Sept. I got a job in the school they attend. The pay is terrible but the convenience is what keeps me there.

Ok firstly, you change your approach to a can do rather than what if.

I work 4 days, oh lives and works abroad. 3 young kids, nearest family Is 2 hours away.

We have no family support around

• Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15

Childminder/afterschool care

• Who would get the kids to school?

Childminder/breakfast club (Or you work flexible time - I do 4days over 5 so start late/finish early 2-3 times a week)

• I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next)

Yep you do, as does the husband! Work from home, take leave, take unpaid days. Kids only get days off when properly sick, no coughs/colds days off.

• What about school holidays?

Holiday clubs, childminders, annual leave

• They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate

We mostly only do weekend activities, eldest does later in the evening ones

• When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush

Online shopping is your saviour here Meal plan according to days activities (easy quick meals on later nights)

• I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner

No one is home during the week so it's less messy/dirty. Pay a cleaner. Kids and oh have jobs to do.

• When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is

You don't. The world doesn't end! People eventually stop asking you to do stuff! Important stuff can be done at lunch time on the phone

• Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.

No, you do this later in the evening with the kids. They can check each other's. trust them to do it, we have a homework session each weekend where I check things through, weekdays I expect them to do it themselves and be semi self sufficient.

We have four children (7 years between oldest and youngest) and no help: I waited until my youngest was in junior school (yr 4 - age 8) before I went back to work. I was only really able to do it because my husband had just been forced to go part time (20hrs) in his job so he picked up the slack I left behind in regard to household chores/cooking and children.

We managed because our children were all in local schools so the older ones helped out with school pick ups. Music lessons happened in school, after school activities weren't a big thing for us then, all the kids could swim, and older ones would help with getting our younger two to and from any local classes - but we found after-school activities tended to naturally die away once they hit secondary school, or it was things they could get themselves to. In fact all our children became much more independent at getting themselves organised and getting around our local area. We've called on local friends once or twice, but otherwise our lives just took on a different rhythm and everyone adapted.

We probably couldn't have both worked full-time to be honest, not without arranging childcare and a cleaner, but it's definitely do-able if one of you is working part time. To answer your specific concerns, here's how it worked for us.

We have no family support around: Many people don't, work with what you have rather than fretting about what you don't have.

Somebody would need to collect the younger DC at 3.15
Who would get the kids to school? Wait until the younger ones are not babies any more and use the older ones to help when you or your partner can't take/ collect.

I would need to take days off for sickness (with 4 DC they can tend to get things one after the next): I never really found this once they got past infant school age. There really was not that much sickness, maybe the odd day here or there.

What about school holidays? Luckily my partner works in a school, but I'm sure you and your husband could work something out.

They would need to drop after school clubs probably as it might be too much for a childminder to facilitate: Yes, but as they get older you'll probably find they'll be glad to do this.

When would I do food shopping and dinner would be a rush Plan ahead, use online shopping, work part time and food shop in smaller amounts as you go rather than a once weekly 'big shop'

I'm not sure I could keep on top of the house, even with a cleaner Get a grip

When would I fit all the other "stuff" in because I find I'm running round most days as it is Take a step back, if you disappeared tomorrow their world would still keep turning and the essentials would all still get done. If you're 'running' most days with four school age children and no paid job to do then you're doing jobs that don't need to be done, recognise that some that work will go by the wayside.

Would the childminder be able to facilitate / check homework because with 4 DC this is a lot? You'll be there in the evenings to help, homework gets done, or it doesn't and they get into trouble - that's up to them. I never found that it was a lot or that they even wanted much help from me after year 4 or 5. If they wanted help I was always able to be there to give it - even when I was working night shifts.

Not to mention music practice and this kind of thing.: See above, everything from here is a process of letting go of control - if they want to play an instrument they need to be self disciplined in their practice - If they don't want practice to then that's their decision. You're not superwoman, you don't need to control everything.

Finally, I would say that if your partner prefers you to be at home, and you don't really want to go back to work (as your OP implies) then I'm not sure why you are asking these questions? I suspect (and hope I'm wrong) that you were hoping for people to confirm that with no help and 4DC you couldn't possibly go back to work and 'do it all'. I really hope not, because that feels a bit insulting to those of us who have to work to support our families. The long and short is - if it's something you have to do you'll find a way to do it. If it's not, then you'll do what you already seem to be doing, and find as many possible excusesbarriers to going back to work as you can to justify why you 'can't' do it.

Sorry Op. predictably this thread is descending in to SAHPs v working parents. So tiresome.

Even with 4 dc, no financial need nor any great wish to, if you don't get a job ( any job, so long as it is outside the home) then you are somehow a lesser being than those who choose differently.

Sigh. ''Twas ever thus.

And who's afraid you sound like a real pain.

The op started the thread, on the face of it asking how mums cope with having a job as well as being a parent. Posters have replied with variations along the lines of: pay for childcare, outsource some of the boring housework tasks, share domestic responsibilities more equably with your partner ....
Honestly if anyone is trying to start a bun fight blame the OP, though taking it at face value, she's asked a question and got responses.
No one has said you're a lesser human being if you don't work. People have just been telling the OP how they manage

Op, I really don't want to sound flippant but you're asking all the wrong questions :)

The "how" usually sorts itself out once you're clear on the "why" and the "what" ( why would you return to work? What would it give you that's missing in your life right now? What are you looking for ? And the biggie - what do you want?!?)

For the record I tick all the boxes (families live in a different country; 2 dcs; dh works hard and is often away). I have worked ever since they were born with varying degrees of madness/out of controlness but so far we have always managed as a family (i.e. Dh is also fully onboard with sorting out logistics of family life!)

I haven't always loved my career and I haven't always loved my work life balance (in fact I often complain about it!) but by far the most exhausting/hardest time of my life was when I was a reluctant sahm for a year following an international relocation.

I don't agree that it is a SAHP vs.working parents thread at all. However, I think that many people, (including me) find it quite irritating when SAHP with high earning partners assert that it is more difficult for them to work than it is for everyone else. If anything it is easier to work if you have the money to employ cleaners etc. The only difference is that it is easier not to work, if your partner earns a high income because they don't need the money.

If DH received a massive pay rise or we won the lottery I might stop working too but I would suggest that it is easier for other people to work than it would be for me. I would just be honest and say that I have enough money to not work so I'm not going to.

would wouldn't suggest that it is easier for other people to work than it would be for me.

Yes Roomster, I've been struggling to articulate to myself what is irritating me and it is that.

I think it's partly because I am a high earner and DH stays at home and I don't actually believe that it would be impossible for me to do my job if he also worked. I am happy for him not to work as we can afford it but of course he could have a job! We'd just pay for a cleaner and some more childcare.

I really didn't mean to get into a SAHM v WOHM debate Maybe I asked a stupid question in the first place because everyone's circumstances are so different. Of course there are people far worse off than me. However, it can be hard get galvanised after 12 years and, I'm not sure if I've still got the stamina to do the health sector job I used to do. I don't feel like I can have a sensible discussion with DH because he doesn't take it seriously really.
Anyway, I've decided part-time within school hours will realistically be the way to go. Someone recommended a life coach and I think I will find one. It feel odd to even be thinking and talking about what I want to do. The truth is, I want to find a focus outside the kids and DH that will see me through middle age and beyond! Thanks very much to everyone who has taken the time to give honest responses.

Single mum of 2, work full time - parents deceased, ex in laws 10000 miles away. Siblings both in different countires.

You just do it - combinations of everything mentioned above and when you sit and think you can't - you just do.

I used to get in from work and as I said to my eldest ( under 9 both DCS) when he asked me to do something in between, checking homework, cooking tea, realising school kit was filthy for the next morning, bathtime - I do actually need to sit down and pee! I realised that was the only time I sat down until they were in bed!

I now make an absolute point of us all sitting at the table to talk - even though my mind is racing as to what order to do the next lot of stuff in.

You just manage!

T

Roomster I agree hits the nail on the head about what is irritating about a small minority of posters - the ones with high earner husbands who complain that they couldn't possibly work (NOT including the OP in that btw as her latest post seems much more measured and not inflammatory)

I can well understand that if you've been a SAHM to a high earner husband for years it no doubt feels very difficult to get back
To work, for several reasons. First, you've been out of the workplace for a significant time, second, if you've taken on all the childcare and housework responsibilities for years, it's naturally harder to recalibrate things. As work expands to fit the time available, it's also easy to think that running a home is a full time job - which of course it can be if you let it, but isn't if you don't.
And third, it must be hard if your husband is earning, say, £300/400 a day, to go and do a days graft for only £80. Because let's not kid ourselves that people earning the big bucks are necessarily working harder

So I can appreciate that if you've been out of the workplace for years and your income isn't going to make a huge positive impact on the family finances, it's perhaps easier to feel it's all too difficult to change the status quo. However, the bottom line is, you will find a way if you want or need to work. It may require a shift in the family dynamics, and will almost certainly require sharper time management but it's perfectly doable.

It sounds as though you've been subsumed by family life and now want to find a new dimension to your life OP, which is great. Don't sweat the small stuff... as others say, if you want something enough then the how will fall into place

I work full time with 3 children and no family support. I do feel sometimes feel like it's all about much but we manage. We have a childminder who does school drop offs/pick ups. If they are ill one of us has to take the time off work which isn't ideal but it's just the way it is. I do little bits of housework everyday rather than all in one go and the children eat at the childminders so no evening meal for them. We eat when they are in bed.

I manage a 0.7 whole time over 4 days with 2 DC, one with SN. It's been hard at times and I don't think I could manage it with more DC. DH does plenty of domestic stuff but I manage all activities, kids social lives, birthdays etc.

I know of a few families with 4 DC with both parents work. Kids tend to do less activities and need to be a bit more resilient. Children all very happy though.

If you have to work, or career/employment is important to you, you find a way to make it work.

I really am dense - had not even considered it to be an SAHP vs working mums battle.
OP asked how and people responded.

As my moniker states - I get criticised hugely by the second EX for working and neglecting my kids - but when she and my EX were together I got the sum total of jack - ergo I worked.
Neither right nor wrong - each to their own.

Only gripe I have is when SAHMs state they know what it is like to be a single mum because DP works away from home a lot/ long hours - believe me you do not!!!!

That's my situation , I just started full time 3 months ago, 2 children 4 and 6 years old, clubs before and after school, I not pick up the kids until 5:30 pm 2 days a week others day at 4pm! Childcare costs me £300 a month, no CTC as GOV says DP makes more than 26K alone! I drop the bags and cook every night, kids complain I don't spend time with them as by the time I finish is tume to go to bed. So tired that I will request to cut my hours after 6 months, kids get behind with homework and I have to run from a to b for some lessons after school! If u don't have don't work full time, get a lunch time assistant job , so if someone asks u do work!

If you want to work, you have to work out what kinds of stress you can manage, and what kinds you can't.

Eg: for me, the biggest source of stress is a certain kind of uptight presenteeism. Even when I was young and had no children I found it extremely stressful as a junior member of staff who never actually had to do anything difficult (or interesting) but had to relentlessly be there, smiling, looking good, wearing uncomfortable shoes, never late in, often leaving late.

Now I have a job (in the same industry) with a completely different kind of organisation. I work from home at least one day a week (two this week, because half term) and when I am in the office, no one notices what time I get there (I am never late, though, oddly, in this environment). The pressure is all in the quality of my work. Although the people around me are very nice, I am constantly and relentlessly scrutinised that everything I do is to a very high standard. I am quite comfortable with that pressure (in peace, on my own sofa, with no make up or shoes on).

Few companies in my industry are like this. My last company was reasonably flexible with me because when I returned to work after ML they knew me as a trouper. I put the hours in despite visible difficulties in two pregnancies and tons of health problems. they respected me and they found a way to help make my work compatible with two small children. Sort of. Very few, quite stingy, concessions; but any breathing space at all makes a difference.

I am now a single parent of school age children and this is what my ex and I do:

share school holidays with AL and holiday club
Compressed hours on the days we each don't have the dcs
After school club, breakfast club, certain days of the week

What I do regret is that there is only day a week I can take the dcs to activities. I really wish that dd1 in particular could do something else, something in particular she seems to have an aptitude for. She is not physically with me on a day I can arrange that class, and I can't get ex to take it seriously and do something on his time.

You make it work if you want to / have to but I strongly recommend you think about exactly what kind of work you want to do and what kind of stress is your good kind. You may need help with this - you don't sound short of a bob or two (if you don't mind me saying so) - so maybe you should get a coach or mentor or someone to look at this. You may not be the same person as you were last time you were in work.

Beware the pitfall of thinking that junior / low paid jobs are easy. they are more difficult than well paid ones, because you have no autonomy to make the decisions that allow you to do your work well and efficiently. And you have the psychic stress of being patronised or insulted or blamed all the time, which takes its toll.

I'm a single parent of 3.
Work is a bit of a juggle tbh. Younger ones go to breakfast club, older one hangs around at school from 8 (has permission!)
We have a nanny in the afternoon. She does any pre 5pm running about, and homework. I do evening activity runs. I have a cleaner for 3 hours a week. The children see their father one night a week, which is when I do the housework. Groceries, I nip into the shops and raid the reduced section most afternoons!
I am permanently knackered.

I was going to suggest a coach! I am a certified coach, hence all my questions, which are typically how a coach works ;)

Good luck with figuring things out - sounds like you're in a place of growth and transformation. It might take a while but starting out is the hardest thing!

Thankyou AntiGrinch - great post. Flexibility is key for me I think. I am trying to work out whether a lower paid less stressful job such as dance / yoga instructor, while more flexible, would become frustrating in the longer term as it may not be mentally challenging enough - although if I could make something like this into my own mini-business, it would be something different for me and challenging in a different way. Everything is a trade-off I suppose. Thankyou again to everyone for your ideas. It's true that ultimately, we can only do as much as we can manage, no matter how many kids or what the home/ work balance is.

I think you need to work out if you want to work. If you do making the sacrifices will feel worth it - if not you'll resent them.

I have a sahm friend. She kept mentioning jobs and I would respond supportively. Then one day I twigged - she's bringing these jobs up because she thinks I think she should be working. I have no view on what she 'should do'. So I started responding in it 'if that's what you want' way and she seems more relaxed with me. The working ppl aren't judging you, we just talk about work because it's a context we're so used to!

Single mum working full-time with no support and two primary aged DCs.

Wraparound care means I drop DCs off for 7.30am and pick them up at 5.30pm.

I work on contract so child sick days have to take as unpaid leave. This means I'm extremely strict with budgeting and finding the cheapest deals.

For school holidays I'm very lucky to have a good holiday club they can go to. I also try to wrangle a working from home day or two which helps my work/life balance enormously on those days.

They do two lots of after school activities, so afterwards they're fed, bath & bed those nights. I cultivate friendships with parents whose DCs do the same hobbies so I look forward to having an adult gossip while I wait.

I go food shopping Sat evening or 10am Sunday to be in and out as quickly as possible. I use a list so know what I'm going for. I will use online shopping occasionally but it costs more so only when I'm desperate (or at Christmas when it gets busy)

Yep I do feel I am not on top of the house most of the time. I did invest in a robot vacuum cleaner and it's a godsend. Sunday is catching up with washing/ironing day.

Pick one project at a time and work at it when you have some time/energy spare. The rest can wait.

It can be very hard if I get poorly but most days it's an organised routine.

I work full-time, full on job, am a single parent and have two kids 5 and 8. I just have to be super organised and I have great mum chums who I can call on in emergencies. My employer is good in that they allow me to work from home when necessary. Not much me time though, only when I can get ex to take the children. Online shopping saves my sanity.