To be scared about the outcome of the election?

[brasty]

There have been so many attacks on disabled people, the NHS and public services. I am just scared that there will be even more after the election, if the Conservatives get in. It is seriously scary.

The NHS is already being dismantled by the current government. Ask anyone who works for the NHS and they will tell you the changes that are happening right now. Saying no government will get rid of the NHS is ridiculous, it is already going unless changes are made.

The Conservatives are ideologically opposed to a large public sector, they have privatised everything they could. Why on earth would anyone think they would not try to privatise health and education is beyond me.

Vote Tory if you must but please do look beyond the spin and understand what you are actually voting for.

the IFS do have a macro-stability agenda - they don't want increases in unemployment or an IMF bail-out, no. They do in general believe we should be paying more tax for better funded services.

I accept the tories have done shit things, will do more shit things, and it pains me to feel that they are the more responsible choice, I'm going to slink into that voting booth to vote for the nasty party and look forward to labour getting a better set of policies together in 5 years.

I do care about all the worried people, and I understand why they're worried. It's hobson's choice for centre-left people.

I do care about all the worried people, and I understand why they're worried. It's hobson's choice for centre-left people.

The Tories are centre left now? PMSL ODFOD

no, they are clearly not. But personally I think they're the better option than the militants running labour at the moment. I know you are personally worried just so will indeed get some work done and leave off chatting to you on the various threads we're on.

But Bratzy you posted a political post regarding the NHS. So you get political replies.

The golden era was Blaire in recent times when waiting lists were cut but again some services were outsourced and not sensibly.

I have total sympathy as I am a carer to my dm with altzimers snd a dad who has chronic health problems.

The NHS isn't underfunded per se it's trying to deliver care that was fine in 1947 but isn't now.

We need a huge overhaul and that to include social care issues which were totally different just after the war.

Neither the tories or labour will 'save' the NHS because neither will admit it's not fit for purpose.

It is unacceptable and the whole service including maternity care snd social care of the elderly needs overhauling.

That won't happen until the NHS is taken out of the political agenda.

Just look at other countries. They spend more on health care than we do.

ZZZZzzzzz... another thread on behalf of the Labour Party.

Some disabled people vote Tory btw.

I'm going to slink into that voting booth to vote for the nasty party

Honestly. Not being snarky. Have you thought about the LibDems?

No other country has an NHS model though. That's the issue.

The Lin Dems who couldn't stand up to the tories? No thanks

The new labour manifesto has just come out op, it looks really great and there are huge crowds turning up to see JC daily. Lets hope they get in. Tory voters who think the nhs is safe under the tories need to go and ask someone who works on the front line. The way in which some posters can gloss over the real damage the tories have done to people is staggering.

The new labour manifesto has just come out op, it looks really great

The not fully costed manifesto you mean. The one with no promise to reverse Universal Credits or Tax credit cuts? The one with no costings for all the nationalisations? Where is all that money from?

and there are huge crowds turning up to see JC daily

Is is only campaigning in mostly Labour heartlands not the marginals which is where TF and TM are.

The one with no promise to reverse Universal Credits or Tax credit cuts?

I answered this on 1 of the other threads we are on, the costings are in a separate document (not that that goes into as much detail as id actually like)

Why don't you come back when you have actually read it piglet

Why don't you come back when you have actually read it piglet

Why don't you come back when you have read it and tell me where those things are?

Even the IMF have said it doesn't add up.

The Conservatives are ideologically opposed to a large public sector, they have privatised everything they could. Why on earth would anyone think they would not try to privatise health and education is beyond me.

A lot of people seem to equate 'privatisation' with 'having to pay'... It's not - scaremongering by the Left. I don't think people don't care if the NHS is privatised as long as it remains free at the point of delivery.

Op I mean better accountability my friend is a nurse and worked in private and NHS little things but would be on bigger scale too like pens! In private hospital you dont take pens, in NHS no one cares so you do.....little things like that but must also happen on larger scale in NHS. IN private tighter reign on spending everything accountable...not so in NHS.

I dont mean turn it private but it needs to be run differently

the costings are in a separate document

Yep but unless it is in the manifesto as I have said previously it doesn't a) have to happen b) be held to account.

If they got in for example and tried to put it through the HoC and then the HoL then it can be challenged. The HoL has an unwritten rule that they don't tend to challenge things that are in a manifesto as that is what a party is elected on. If it isn't in there then it's fair game.

The costing paper isn't much detail at all and nothing like the 'fully costed' that has been spouted by every Labour spokesperson on everything in the last few weeks.

Much of healthcare is already privatised! Medical supplies, drugs, pharmacies, medical equipment. All are essential,
And substantial parts of the healthcare system, yet do we hear those railing against possible privatisation pledging to nationalise these? No... because they work and people (in general) don't really care or even expect that these would be run privately.

The debate should be about investment in healthcare - which I believe there should be more of - not privatisation... it's a red herring used to scare people.

the point I was grappling for on the demographic time bomb is that we have questions about whether we can currently afford labour's policies and if they are fully costed, and then there are bigger questions about what we can afford in 10, 20, 40 years time. If you look at the slightly longer term, the manifesto looks even worse.

Does it make sense when we're already in deficit to expand the state into new areas when it doesn't look as though that's in any way sustainable in the future?

Get a grip. Imagine if labour got in there would be strikes, financial ruin for all. They would run out of money in 5 minutes and inflation would be astronomical
Who's going to strike if labour get in? I know the nurses are going to strike soon cos of the tories, maybe the bin men will strike but doubt if anyone would notice as the only collect rubbish every other week anyway. And financial ruin for all? What as opposed to just financial ruin for the poor? I think the homeless and the people using food banks are already financially ruined

maybe the bin men will strike but doubt if anyone would notice as the only collect rubbish every other week anyway

Not everywhere they don't.

Manifesto only just out so next job is to read it. But from the bbc summary it seems too much going to students and not enough to NHS and disabled.