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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to hope? Warming to Corbyn...

294 replies

citroenpresse · 12/05/2017 14:45

He's the oldest of old dogs. His colleagues seem to loath him. But reading his Chatham House speech, there was very little to disagree with.and healthy domestic proposals. VAT on private school fees (yes). Tax on the highest 5% earners (yes). Higher corporation tax - not on small businesses (yes). Reducing danger of inflated executive pay through government tender changes (yes). Protecting bees (yes yes yes). He's not looking for gimmicky vote winners, he's been banging on about this stuff for years (and no one could deny his tenacity in the leadership process). Labour has some real talents like Keir Starmer Wouldn't we prefer him rather than Boris Johnson taking on Trump? Do miracles happen?

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Original poster
citroenpresse · 13/05/2017 18:19

Too much dirt? Isn't Trump a prime example of that not swaying voters? All those Democrats who said they 'couldn't' vote for Hilary sound pretty similar to those who 'can't' vote for Corbyn. He's annoying in many ways, but he is hardly the only narcissistic politician stuck in a political time warp. Theresa May, despite outrage from teachers, wants to bring back grammar schools. The Tories will destroy the NHS, they have no ideas on innovation or economic growth (even the right wing press agree with that one. The EU funded many of those projects). and they have no clue about Europe, it's not exactly a hard choice for me anyway.

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/05/2017 18:31

He's annoying in many ways, but he is hardly the only narcissistic politician stuck in a political time warp

But who said he was? It always fascinates me when, if criticism is levelled at someone's choice, there's this tendency to cry "but look at them" ... it's almost as if they have no other answer except this

As I've said so often, I imagine we can all find things about individual politicians we don't like, but last time I looked this particular thread title was about Corbyn

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 13/05/2017 18:35

it's not exactly a hard choice for me anyway.

Good for you. It seems the majority of the country disagree, including very many traditional Labour voters.

user1471596238 · 13/05/2017 18:47

We have a very good local Labour MP so I was always going to vote Labour. I have to say that i haven't been completely on the Corbyn train previously but IMO the labour campaign has been far more positive and policy driven than the Tory one. I have voted Tory in the past but I find myself agreeing far more with the vision of the Labour party than the Tory party as i get towards middle age. I am under no illusions about the Tories winning but i am a great believer in checks and balances and i am not convinced that a large majority by any party is good for democracy.

Original poster
citroenpresse · 13/05/2017 18:49

The 'majority of the country' doesn't disagree just like Brexit was not 'the majority of the country' either. The majority of the country could still vote Labour and it wouldn't make any difference. All you can say is that many Labour voters find Corbyn an unacceptable leader but 'the majority of labour voters' voted for him. Except of course for the Tories who also registered to vote in the party leadership. What a stupid system.

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/05/2017 19:03

What a stupid system

I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but it's the system we've got for now so it's up to all parties to campaign as best they can within it, while still working democratically for whatever change they see fit

Although I admit I'm bracing myself for the endless and inevitable cries of "it's not faaaaiiiirrrr" when Labour lose ...

mrsglowglow · 13/05/2017 19:10

It's not Corbyn that's making me hesitate to voting Labour. It's more the disjointed Labour party in general and the feeling that they're a party divided. Would they not just spend the entire time fighting amongst themselves? Would Corbyn have enough support to keep the 'other' Labour from ousting him. I actually admire Corbyn.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 13/05/2017 19:12

Although I admit I'm bracing myself for the endless and inevitable cries of "it's not faaaaiiiirrrr" when Labour lose ...

Plus of course none of it will be dear leaders fault will it.

I hope he has the self awareness to stand down. He won't though.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 13/05/2017 19:15

Would Corbyn have enough support to keep the 'other' Labour from ousting him.

Not when he has lost 50-100 MPs.

Maybe the membership will keep him. Many of them however think that ideology is more important than being in power, where you know, you can actually do something.

He can hardly also ask for unity when he hasn't been loyal to past Labour leaders.

Justanotherlurker · 13/05/2017 19:15

Except of course for the Tories who also registered to vote in the party leadership. What a stupid system.

It's amazing that JC being voted in is still somehow the Tories fault, it was initially the secret left wing uprising not entryists from swp and other hard left groups when he was first elected, then the second was proof that the UK was apparently waking up to Marxism/Socialism

JC being in control is not anything to do with the tories, however as much a gift he is.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/05/2017 19:19

Many of them however think that ideology is more important than being in power, where you know, you can actually do something

Exactly

To be fair success or failure is rarely down to just one person, but in this particular case they'll have a hell of a job trying to spin JC out of the firing line Grin

TessTube · 13/05/2017 19:19

I've read some stuff which suggests he wants to hang on until the Autumn conference and so have the chance of having a successor from that side of the party.

Dawndonnaagain · 13/05/2017 19:22

He has had, for the last 34 odd years, a remarkably low profile for a narcissist.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/05/2017 19:26

Yes I've seen a lot of the same, Tess

FWIW the idea of the party stitching themselves even further into a hard left agenda horrifies me, but if that's what they decide then that's what they'll have to take to the electorate next time

And then lose again

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 13/05/2017 19:35

I've read some stuff which suggests he wants to hang on until the Autumn conference and so have the chance of having a successor from that side of the party.

Well that would mean the likes of McDonnell or Abbott then because a vast number of his supporting MPs are in small minority seats and may well not be returned to parliament.

Those two are in safe seats.

Slarti · 13/05/2017 19:42

Seriously, you really think people who vote Conservative dont think they are also voting for a fairer society?

Do you seriously think they do??? I find that naive in the extreme or just completely bonkers. My MIL is totally aware that if she votes Tory things will get worse for the poor, for children, for patients of the NHS, for her elderly mother, for mental health patients, for the disabled. She just doesn't care. For Tory voters people are expendable.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/05/2017 19:44

Well that would mean the likes of McDonnell or Abbott then

Don't even go there, Piglet!! Shock Grin

Or maybe they could have Angela Rayner, another one who apparently can't put numbers to one of Labour's key policies?

Just where do they find these people ... ?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 13/05/2017 19:51

Do you seriously think they do??? I find that naive in the extreme or just completely bonkers

I actually do. I just think that they are tackling it from a different way. I am not naive either.

For Tory voters people are expendable.

Huge incorrect sweeping statements there.

Your MIL is no more representative of all Tory voters than someone from Stop the War who voted Corbyn, is representative of all Labour voters.

TessTube · 13/05/2017 19:59

Because they buy in to the view that Labour buggered up the economy and the Tories have come in and had to sort it all out.

Or our grandchildren will be all living under the terrible debt.

They blame others for the unpopular things they do.

MerlinEmrys · 13/05/2017 20:05

I will be voting Labour but despite Corbyn.

I like their policies but cannot warm to him.

Original poster
citroenpresse · 13/05/2017 21:00

fighting amongst themselves how short are Tory memories?!! The inability to control a teeny percentage of the Conservative party through several leaders is how we are in this Brexit mess in the first place...They have no ideological basis except to stay in control. May is looking for a massive "mandate" but Merkel et al are no fools. It isn't a mandate. Might as well vote for something positive.

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TessTube · 13/05/2017 22:40

They are a lot better at getting rid of people they want to and fistfighting in private though but you are right, it is the reason why we are in this bloody mess.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 13/05/2017 22:42

Labour being unable to sort itself out and the membership being at odds with the rest of the Labour voting public, is why there is no real opposition and May will get her landslide.

Slarti · 14/05/2017 09:41

I actually do. I just think that they are tackling it from a different way. I am not naive either.

Are they tackling child poverty by increasing it? Are they tackling reliance on food banks by making it worse? Are they tackling disability by telling people they are fit for work? Are they tackling education by cutting it? At the very least if you vote Tory you are indifferent to the above, at worst hostile towards them. Sweping generalisation or not, a Tory voter wants fairness as much as UKIP voter wants increased immigration. They're called the nasty party for a reason.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/05/2017 10:21

They're called the nasty party for a reason.

They are called the nasty party by people that don't agree with them. Wink

At the moment Labour are the useless party that are no opposition at all and about to lose many good MPs.

They have to actually attract Tory voters to vote Labour to win, yet instead of that it's name calling and nastiness. For some it more about point scoring than anything else.

It has left people like me at the moment with no one to vote for.