AIBU to hope? Warming to Corbyn...

[citroenpresse]

He's the oldest of old dogs. His colleagues seem to loath him. But reading his Chatham House speech, there was very little to disagree with.and healthy domestic proposals. VAT on private school fees (yes). Tax on the highest 5% earners (yes). Higher corporation tax - not on small businesses (yes). Reducing danger of inflated executive pay through government tender changes (yes). Protecting bees (yes yes yes). He's not looking for gimmicky vote winners, he's been banging on about this stuff for years (and no one could deny his tenacity in the leadership process). Labour has some real talents like Keir Starmer Wouldn't we prefer him rather than Boris Johnson taking on Trump? Do miracles happen?

If they think they are, they are deluded.

I think the delusion is with Labour supporters.... delusion that their policies are affordable and sustainable, and ultimately deliverable. It's all very well morning that the Tories' austerity hasn't worked (when actually it has significantly reduced the huge deficit it inherited following a once-in-50-year crash), but to say 'what the hell, we might as well spend, spend, spend' is reckless.... and then presumably blame others for not forgiving our debts when we turn into Greece mk2.

I cant separate the man from the party and that's why I wont vote labour because I will not vote for this man. remember his stance on various things - IRA terrorist apologist, anti semitic, anti EU even though he pretends he isn't.

I worked with this man years ago in London. he was a misogynistic despot who always thought he was right no matter what.

His domestic proposals are not healthy. Nationalise the railways? because that went so well last time they were in public ownership didn't it - or perhaps I am older than you and remember this.

be careful what you wish for OP. this tax on the highest earners stuff frightens the shit out of me. not because I am anywhere near a high earner but because Labour have a habit of goal post moving and a high earner could easily be defined by a future labour govt in power as anyone on more than the average.

These are pie in the sky uncosted left of left wing policies.

we cannot afford for people to retire before 65/70. when the act was brought in with 65 as retirement age this was chosen because less than 50% of people lived to this age.

tax private school fees and only the super rich will be able to afford them driving other people to state schools and increasing their burden.

You see what I can't understand is if Jeremy is such a nice genuine guy why didn't the previous front bench like Burnham, cooper etc won't work with him?

Even if I liked the whole manifesto, and it reads to me like a kids wish list who can wave a wand and make the country fair to everyone without taxing us all to fuck, I wouldn't dream of voting for a party that has buffoons like Abbotts and Thornbury in top jobs. They are hopeless and laughable.

I'll be voting labour. I hadn't realised previously that the tax payer subsidises the railways but gets nothing back when they make a huge profit.

The infrastructure that we paid for utilities only for Thatcher to sell it all off to her friends.

The only evidence of Corbyn being a bad leader that I've seen is the media telling me he is.

VAT on private school fees (yes).

What about the people that literally just manage to pay the tuition fees? Add on VAT and they no longer can afford it.

Higher corporation tax - not on small businesses (yes).

And the business will leave because all they care about is profit. So hello to increase in unemployment.

I'm trying to work out in what situation we (ie the UK) are going to be taking on Trump?
If (when ) the conservatives win, Trump will be paraded around on a state visit.

I don't think that'd happen under Corbyn.

I agree coconutella
It's about someone else paying for all the nice things...
I think it was stated that each and every family would have to pay £4000 extra in tax per year to fund the proposals....
Or if you look at the 5% at £80,000 only they would have to pay an extra £80,000 in tax each year...
Er...

The Conservatives own mainstream media. That is the only reason they are backing Theresa May.

I wobbled a bit over his attitude to Brexit but I will be voting labour. Corbyn is our best chance to keep the NHS

The only evidence of Corbyn being a bad leader that I've seen is the media telling me he is.

Maybe listen to the first hand accounts of MPs that have tried working with him or economists like Danny Blanchflower that resigned from working with him as he couldn't work with Corbyn and his team.

slightlypeturbedowlagain exactly. I wasn't going to vote labour but I am now, even though am not keen on the candidate, because it's the policies that matter. If a more acceptable leader (Starmer, Cooper etc) was in charge, I doubt whether their manifesto would have been as adventurous. Nothing to do with moral superiority. That's the Tory line.

Dearohdeer - he is a bad leader. I have worked with him. I am not in politics, I am not a journalist.

I was involved with the Unions and worked in local govt in London as well as being involved then with the labour party.

I have seen how he operates first hand and he is a dictator. no one else is right. only him. no discussion or compromise. why do you think he was shunted out onto the back benches and never held a cabinet post until elected leader. because no-one could work with him.

how comfortable do you feel about him sharing a platform with terrorists and never condoning their actions.

too many people that know him and have worked with him feel as I do. I am just amazed that he has hoodwinked so many intelligent normal people.

So did the media tell Burnham and Cooper and dozens more MPs not to work with him.

Of course not.

Under the cons, the deficit has gone down because of cuts to public services, but in the long term we need to generate more revenue from greater, good quality employment to reduce the national debt.

Cutting spending has short term effects on the deficit and therefore national debt but ultimately this policy is unsustainable for two reasons. The cost to those services which have to pick up the effects of the cuts eg police having to deal with people who have mental health problems which would previously have been helped by nhs is often greater than the spending which has been cut. Indidvidual disposable income is going down and this means that retailers etc make less profit as the public have less disposable income to spend.

Nothing to do with moral superiority.

Have you seen some of the sneering posts on MN towards those that don't vote Labour?

Exactly tiggytape!
As I said taking the tax only off the higher earners would mean a person earning £80,000 would pay the entire lot in tax.
How is that fair?

Apart from all the other issues about them to me the various party leaders, and all the other potential leaders anyone mentions, all seem such a homogeneous and colourless bunch, just a load of 'grey suits' including May (well maybe I can't include Corbyn in that, but he still is not standing out in positive way). And really they all have been for ages, Cameron, Major, Blair, both Milibands, Balls etc. All the ones with any personality seem to be crazy or have extreme views (Boris etc)
I've heard some great interviews from some of the younger female backbenchers, where are they?

Only him, no discussion or compromise.

Isn't it only her, no discussion or compromise regarding Brexit negotiations now?

He was never 'shunted' onto the backbenches...that was his natural habitat! He's stood in a zillion leadership contests, only ever got a handful of votes. He's never been mainstream labour (i.e. infuriating Blairite command) but unlike other Labour MPs, who are no less craven than Tory MPs in wanting to hang onto their seats, he's stuck to his beliefs. I'm feeling warmer. There are a lot of unpleasant dictator types in politics. Why should he be any different? If the Queen can shake Martin McGuinnes's hand, does that mean she condones their actions?

Nationalise the railways? because that went so well last time they were in public ownership didn't it - or perhaps I am older than you and remember this

And it's going well now? Foreign companies run our railways. WE pay for the infrastructure, They just run the trains and charge ridiculous fares. We waste a fortune on the railways run privately.
I do remember when they were publically owned and it was better than it is now.
We are using more and more private companies for healthcare, prisons, waste disposal, railways and we pay them millions. All of these services are in a state. They are profit driven not service driven.
Many councils are going back to directly employing service workers because it costs a fortune using private companies for bad service.

Amazing isn't it that paying a private company to provide a service (and take a cut of the money for shareholders) costs more than employing people direct. Who'd have thought...

but unlike other Labour MPs, who are no less craven than Tory MPs in wanting to hang onto their seats, he's stuck to his beliefs

So it us ok for him to stick by his beliefs yet when non Corbyn supporting Labour members or PLP do it they are shouted down to get behind the leader or 'red tory' or 'traitor'

He's stood in a zillion leadership contests

No he hasn't!

Warming to Corbyn OP? Sounds like you've had the hots for him for a while.

There's a good reason a majority of Labour MP's tried to get rid of him, and if they don't trust him to lead, then I wonder how the rest of the country could be persuaded.

As I said taking the tax only off the higher earners would mean a person earning £80,000 would pay the entire lot in tax

Their entire salary would be taken as tax? Can you explain that because that's not possible. You pay a percentage after your tax allowance.

I definitely feel a new surge.