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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to hope? Warming to Corbyn...

294 replies

citroenpresse · 12/05/2017 14:45

He's the oldest of old dogs. His colleagues seem to loath him. But reading his Chatham House speech, there was very little to disagree with.and healthy domestic proposals. VAT on private school fees (yes). Tax on the highest 5% earners (yes). Higher corporation tax - not on small businesses (yes). Reducing danger of inflated executive pay through government tender changes (yes). Protecting bees (yes yes yes). He's not looking for gimmicky vote winners, he's been banging on about this stuff for years (and no one could deny his tenacity in the leadership process). Labour has some real talents like Keir Starmer Wouldn't we prefer him rather than Boris Johnson taking on Trump? Do miracles happen?

OP posts:
makeourfuture · 15/05/2017 11:58

Are we really going into a "red scare" conversation?

That we will become n korea?

Two4One2017 · 15/05/2017 12:13

Here's the Policy Exchange think tank's view of Labour's confused Foreign Policy, which Corbyn did nothing to clear up last week in his Chatham House "speech"

policyexchange.org.uk/why-jeremy-corbyn-is-not-part-of-the-clement-attlee-internationalist-tradition-within-labour/

Some choice words on Corbyn's views of NATO:

"While the British people can understand personal dissent on a matter of conscience, however, they are more likely to object to deliberate obfuscation. Corbyn has made it abundantly clear in the past that he sees Nato as a source of evil in international affairs rather than, as his Shadow Foreign Secretary suggests, a bedrock of national security. "

"Typical of this attitude was a 2014 article in the Morning Star in which he wrote disparagingly about Labour’s starring role in its formation: “Nato was established to cement a transatlantic anti-communist alliance centred in western Europe and strongly supported by the British Labour foreign secretary Ernie Bevin. For all its magnificent achievements on the domestic front, the Attlee government was pursuing neo-colonial wars in south-east Asia, cracking down on growing independence movements in African colonies and secretly developing its own nuclear weapons.”

After the Russian incursion into Ukraine in 2014, he commented that “the hypocrisy of the West remains unbelievable” and laid the blame at the door of Nato: “It operates way beyond its original 1948 area and its attempt to encircle Russia is one of the big threats of our time.” During his first leadership election in 2015, Corbyn went so far as to say that Nato “should have been wound up in 1990 along with the Warsaw Pact”. Since he became Labour leader, he has repeatedly evaded the question of whether, as Prime Minister, he would act if Article 5 was invoked (which holds that an attack on one Nato member is an attack on the rest). Corbyn may not want to hold Donald Trump’s hand. But his distancing from the White House is a useful smokescreen for the fact that he far outstrips him in his view that it is time to dispense with the international order that Labour did so much to build after 1945."

Here's the final paragraph:

"The Labour Party remains more divided on foreign policy than any other policy area. The biggest parliamentary rebellion against Corbyn’s leadership to date came over the vote on airstrikes against Daesh in Syria in December 2015. While his MPs can live with a radical manifesto on the domestic front, it is the puerile placards of the Stop the War Coalition that make many of them squirm on the doorstep; and it is on national security that the distance in public trust between Corbyn and Theresa May is most pronounced. His speech at Chatham House will have done very little to close the gap."

The writer is a Prof from Kings College London

Headofthehive55 · 15/05/2017 12:16

my hospital has I proved greatly in the last seven years too.
Seven years ago, we were cancelling ops left right and centre- a daily Occurance. Now that's unusual.

dawn my DD was disabled and awarded a long term award, highest rate too. She improved and now no longer really is disabled at all.

Two4One2017 · 15/05/2017 12:48

A very good clear explanation about how raising corporation tax won't raise what the Labour party are projecting and it will be all of us that suffer as unemployment goes up and investment in the UK falls - from the Adam Smith Institute

www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-effect-of-labours-corporation-tax#_ftnref1=

Two4One2017 · 15/05/2017 12:52

Here's some more info on the background and beliefs of Andrew Murray, the new Corbyn election campaign chief:

order-order.com/2017/05/15/andrew-murrays-greatest-hits/

UrsulaPandress · 15/05/2017 13:00

Strong and stable

For the many not the few

Both sides are churning out their slogan endlessly.

citroenpresse · 15/05/2017 13:07

Why is this relevant Two4One? You are going to make a decision about your MP based on the background of one of the members of staff they hire on a temporary basis to help out with their campaign?

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/05/2017 13:12

My hospital has vastly improved under this government

my hospital has I proved greatly in the last seven years too

Hope you've both got your tin hats on ... Wink Grin

Believeitornot · 15/05/2017 13:17

Seriously, you really think people who vote Conservative dont think they are also voting for a fairer society

The Tory rhetoric is all about hard working families/just about managing.

But what about the children in families who aren't "hard working" e.g. Because they're ill/disabled? Those children didn't choose their circumstances and the Tories don't give a monkeys.

What about children not smart enough to make it to grammar schools? Their buildings crumble while money is diverted to vanity projects like free schools.

Me, I'll be fine under a Tory government. But god forbid if I'm ill or rendered disabled and cannot support my children.

God forbid those who cannot afford private social care.

The Tories target sections of society - they are not fair. If you can't help yourself then they don't care.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/05/2017 13:18

One of the comments from the article Two4One posted is
"How on earth does Corbyn manage to have such an inexhaustible supply of these people? Is there no end to them?"

Which seems a fair point

Headofthehive55 · 15/05/2017 13:23

puzzled
I can only speak from direct experience working at the sharp end. I don't know what it's like elsewhere, as I don't work there. But my experience is real, and valid.

makeourfuture · 15/05/2017 13:27

This nato thing. What are you suggesting? That corbyn would weaken nato, and thus the soviet union will envade?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/05/2017 13:27

Why is this relevant Two4One? You are going to make a decision about your MP based on the background of one of the members of staff they hire on a temporary basis to help out with their campaign?

It is quite important. The position they hold will shape the campaign. If it is because he is a good friend of Corbyn then for some that is worrying that a recent Communist Party member who holds the values that go along with that will influence the leader and the party.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/05/2017 13:29

I'm not arguing, Headofthehive ... elsewhere I posted myself about how much worse accessing any kind of support for my disabled son was under Labour, and how even their councillors and MPs were utterly disinterested

But this is Mumsnet, remember - so that didn't go down very well either Wink

Headofthehive55 · 15/05/2017 13:37

It's hard when your experience doesn't fit the rhetoric isn't it?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/05/2017 13:46

It's hard when your experience doesn't fit the rhetoric isn't it?

Sure is Wink

In all fairness I have to say that not everyone's experience will be the same, so any individual one is hardly the be all and end all ... but then it hardly seems a reason for invective either

citroenpresse · 15/05/2017 13:52

Have you analysed all the people helping out in Conservative HQ? Corbyn's own (personal) agenda is very public, the dissent within the Labour Party is very public, he's not an enthusiastic NATO supporter - and? This is an election campaign! Tories are highly skilled at getting jobs for their mates in public bodies and they argue that political affiliations shouldn't matter. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/honours-cronies-david-cameron-tories-a7492906.html

OP posts:
Two4One2017 · 15/05/2017 13:53

Why is this relevant Two4One? You are going to make a decision about your MP based on the background of one of the members of staff they hire on a temporary basis to help out with their campaign?

Because I am assessing someone's judgement as the party leader will become leader of our country. In addition I am considering how well someone will be as my local MP based on their credentials and background. Personally, I think that this appointment does little to throw off the Communist/Marxist label that Corbyn and McDonnell have, which shows poor judgement when you consider that most of the time the party closest to the centre tends to win an election.

It's as if they don't want to win the election but ensure that they have totally taken over the Labour party so he cannot be challenged again. There are more and more rumours of a new party from the centre left forming after the election - I would like that to happen. Vince Cable was on the radio talking about this earlier, and Blair, and moderate Labour ex-MPs have also hinted.

Two4One2017 · 15/05/2017 13:56

Haha! I agree with you Citroen about the Tories and the crony gongs. As if Cameron's reputation wasn't already tarnished enough.

Good to see Theresa May is not getting involved in any honours list guff

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/politics/news/85652/theresa-may-will-not-publish-dissolution-honours-list-report

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