AIBU to hope? Warming to Corbyn...

[citroenpresse]

He's the oldest of old dogs. His colleagues seem to loath him. But reading his Chatham House speech, there was very little to disagree with.and healthy domestic proposals. VAT on private school fees (yes). Tax on the highest 5% earners (yes). Higher corporation tax - not on small businesses (yes). Reducing danger of inflated executive pay through government tender changes (yes). Protecting bees (yes yes yes). He's not looking for gimmicky vote winners, he's been banging on about this stuff for years (and no one could deny his tenacity in the leadership process). Labour has some real talents like Keir Starmer Wouldn't we prefer him rather than Boris Johnson taking on Trump? Do miracles happen?

citroen - I think you are trying to rewrite history here. he never stood in a leadership contest before because no one liked him enough to nominate him.

why would a politicians natural habitat be the back benches? people go into politics to make a difference. you make a difference by getting into a position of power ie the cabinet. not by being back bench cannon fodder.

he was looked upon as the 70's throw back harmless old duffer and that's why he was tolerated for so long.

The queen shook mcguinesses hand once he had renounced terrorism. Corbyn did it long before when they were still active.

is no one looking at the other inexperienced, anti establishment type leaders across the world at the moment? trump, Macron? what is it with this less experience of govt is more?

The railways are a mess because they are not in private uk hands. the biggest mistake we ever made was letting overseas companies bid for an win these services. If they had stayed UK based then they could have been controlled.

Nationalising is not the way to go it seriously isn't. the NHS is nationalised and that's going well isn't it!

as for the royal mail, stamps are a dead duck. a dying industry.

As I said taking the tax only off the higher earners would mean a person earning £80,000 would pay the entire lot in tax.
How is that fair?

Agreed... not just unfair but entirely unworkable. however, the tax increase would apply to amounts above £80k. I wonder what the marginal tax will be to achieve the income required when Corporation Tax doesn't yield expected amounts and the Government interest rate increases dramatically as debt rises inexorably and lenders worry about repayments....

I can see how it would turn out (although it won't actually happen).... Labour wins... much jubilation.... things go great for a couple of years... then the shit hits the fan.... borrowing hits astronomical levels, interest rates rise.... we need an IMF bailout.... austerity hits that makes what we've currently had look like a picnic..... Labour blame everyone but themselves

I definitely feel a new surge.

No what you feel is the already converted coming out the woodwork, pretending that they have just been converted.

It is the floating voters who need convincing, the polls show that shouting about "media spin" or "but its the tories" etc is not working.

tiggytape you have hit the nail on the head. The problem with taxing the 'rich' is that there are not enough of them, and the properly rich are mobile so just shovel their cash elsewhere. If we want to increase tax receipts from personal taxation it has to be across the board, whether by income tax, NICS or VAT.

Secondly, the issue with corporation tax is again in the modern world global corporations move their money around, so will shift money elsewhere. Also, nationalising large areas of industry will reduce corporation tax receipts anyway

A grown up discussion is needed on government spending and taxation. Do we as a society want to increase taxes to pay for public services - if so, then it will have to be across the board.

Also, given changing demographics, pensions, social care and health spending are increasing at a great rate. How can we keep a handle on those and not bankrupt the country in the next 50 years - neither side seems keen on confronting this. The pensions triple lock is absolutely counter to what needs to be done to control this

He hasn't stood....apologies. Don't where I dredged up that from!

The sneery nasty attitudes from the hard left turn me off here snd in RL so no afraid not. Hopefully he will piss off after the defeat and s credibkr opposition will emerge.

My point was maths.
Corbin isn't increasing taxes for people earning under £80,000
It has been calculated that every family would have to pay and extra £4000 in tax to fund the proposals.
Now if Corbyn is only taxing those 5% of families each one would shoulder 20multiplied by 4000 hence £80,000.
My point is that the maths is laughable.

I love seeing so many Labour ministers talking about "the rich" when what they actually mean is "me and people like me".

Corbyn isn't poor. Abbott sent her child to private school.

the manifesto is just a mess of policies to try and appeal to as many people as possible with no real coherent costings.

under labour there is always "someone else" will pay attitude. only problem is it ends up being all of us once they have screwed the economy up and left us with huge bills.

throwing money at education, the NHS, the railways just is not the way. it hasn't worked before. it wont work this time. we have to re-design these services for 2017 not limp along with something that worked in the 1950's.

I am slightly worried about going back to the 1970s.
Strikes, sitting round a candle for light. Bins were not collected.
Inflation.

What mummy says absolutlry.

Don't even want to recall the awful winter of discontent and strikes etc. Corbyn would take us back their with his union puppet masters

VAT on private school fees? That's really not going to help our education system - it will lead to a significant increase in already over-subscribed schools.

I have just re- read the manifesto. I think it treats us all like idiots - "here you are darling, heres the sweeties, now don't worry because you don't have to pay for them, someone else will. Look aren't they lovely. isn't this what you want"

I am not falling for this. promising all these things with no costings. what sort of daft twats do the labour party take us for.

cant you just hear the patronising tones of Abbott riddled throughout this document. Honestly jezza wake up. we are actually intelligent and sophisticated not sheep.

Corbyn certainly energises and enthuses a significant number of people. However, these people would have always been labour voters, and their vote only counts as much as a swing voter that will vote Cons as the lesser of two evils.

As for proposed tax increase resulting in more money, I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it so simplistically. The treasury's annual tax income has actually increased from £500b to £600b under Tory tax policy since the coalition came to power in 2010.

People need to vote for policies, not individuals.
Party leaders are figureheads. Policies are all made behind doors by a team of people.

Leadership matters. There will be times when it will conme down to someone having to be responsible and push a thing through, draw a line in the sand, whatever.

Policies are not much use without the competence to deliver them. Competence at building consensus (and dscipline) in the Parliamentary party and competence at managing the opposition, the media, the machinery of government.

The thing that terrifies me about this election is that I don't think the necessary competence is available from any party.

In a C4 interview he is now refusing to say whether he would send troops to help a NATO ally under threat....

How is NATO funded? And which countries are used in it's operations? My understanding was this was not fairly balanced across all nations.

People need to vote for policies, not individuals

While that's true, let's remember that it's a collection of "individuals" who'll have to implement the policies ... and it seems that a huge majority of voters simply don't want the people on offer

Personally I honestly think Labour need to realise that - at least under their current leadership - it's over for them, and start planning what to do after they lose the general election. If they're happy to remain as some kind of unelectable protest party I guess that's up to them, but it won't do much towards providing the effective opposition we so badly need

Sensei that's exactly how I feel. I've heard some very competent-sounding junior MPs on the radio over the last year or two, but they don't seem to be featured at the top of the parliamentary parties.
(And for a pp who said the NHS isn't working well in public hands, it has had eleventy-billion changes in structure and reforms forced on it by governments over the last 20 years including major ones by a government who were elected on a 'no more NHS reforms' mandate. It's amazing it's still managing to do what it is doing)

What kind of a person runs over someone's foot and doesn't get out to check they are OK?

People need to vote for policies, not individuals.

Well according to the poll that has spread like wild fire amongst my momentum friends it seems that the data suggests that people don't care so much about the policies that are popular and care more about the policies that are unpopular.

Personally it looks like the issue is Labours credibility, and by putting out a manifesto which says vote for us and all your dreams will come true makes them seem less credible.

Bees. FFS. As if that's the main thing we need to worry about.

Looking at their website on my phone so apologies if I am missing something

They don't say anything about inheritance tax, non doms, BTL landlords, tax havens, tax avoidance including putti g CGT in a spouse's name - and there's nothing specific about changing the "no rights against unfair dismissal" till two years into employment contract....

10 pledges is the Ed Stone without the stone.

Of course not a peep out of any party on overpopulation.

I have just re- read the manifesto. I think it treats us all like idiots

You're right of course, but I think their main hope is that people just won't think too much about it - or even that they'll simply focus on tired old phrases like "tax the rich!!" and believe that will solve everything

Sadly for Labour, I'm convinced the majority of voters are far more intelligent than that

This gentleman Labour HQ have just employed sounds delightful....

order-order.com/2017/05/12/top-new-corbyn-aide-mocked-queen-army-national-anthem/

Sadly for Labour, I'm convinced the majority of voters are far more intelligent than that

Problem is that for most labour supporters corbynites, unless your a disciple your ignorant and have been influenced by the bogey man of the right wing media, that way they can bury their head in the sand