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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to counter these lies?

315 replies

MrsRuby · 10/05/2017 20:48

AIBU to want to counteract the lies I keep reading on here?

Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable/ a shambles/ can't lead.

He's been an mp for 34 years, always voted on his principals, never been involved in scandal, claims a pittance in expenses, lives in his constituency, voted in as leader of his party by a large majority twice, has been responsible for a huge surge in party members, elicits genuine interest and support from the public, can debate and speak publicly without scripted answers.

The NHS is too big to be saved/where is the money coming from.
Conservatives bailed bankers out with 180 billion. 30 billion is needed to 'save' NHS. The money is there and can be costed through taxing top 5% of earners (see below). That's only people earning over 80k (not 40k or 55k or any other number I've seen on this site. Anyone earning over 80k - again that's just the top 5% of earners in this country) will have to pay a LITTLE bit more tax). Here is a break down of many other policies and how they will be paid for;

✔️Labour will reverse the Tory Party cut in Corporation Tax saving the UK Taxpayer £64 billion over a parliamentary cycle (OBR)

✔️Free School Meals for children aged 4-11, costing £900m which will be raised by placing VAT on Independent Schools which will raise £1.1bn+

✔️£10 per hour Minimum Wage for all over 18 years benefiting 5.5m workers, paid for by the private sector firms, and savings in reduced Working Tax Credit payments

✔️A 17% increase in the unpaid carers’ allowance worth £500 a year, paid for by reversing the recent Inheritance Tax cut
Renationalise the Railways, which will cost nothing because we’ll take railways into public ownership as franchises lapse

✔️Halt the tender of NHS contracts to private health, phasing out the £48bn given to private health since 2010. This will save taxpayers between £3.5bn-£5bn in reduced profits paid to private health

✔️Build 200,000 homes a year, half from the private sector at zero cost to the taxpayer. The rest would be Council Homes paid for by giving Councils the power to borrow against existing assets. Consequently, the UK’s £12bn Housing Benefit bill to private landlords would start to fall.

✔️Introduce 4 new public holidays per year that BoE say would be cost neutral due to increased expenditure by the public on those days off, £2.3bn.

✔️End Zero Hour Jobs by guaranteeing any worker on regular hours a contract. This carries zero cost to the taxpayer.

✔️A ban on companies based in tax havens, or those who pay their CEOs more than £350,000, bidding for government contracts. This carries no cost to the taxpayer.

✔️Halt the opening of new Free Schools and new Grammars which will save the taxpayer money as NAO says Free Schools cost double what was originally intended.

✔️Ban ‘sweetheart’ deals between the HMRC & Multi-Corps and make the big firms publish their tax returns. This will increase tax revenue because it becomes harder for firms to hide profits.

✔️Eradicate the Gender Pay Gap by making firms publish their pay differentials between men & women. This will increase UK tax revenue from higher wages.

✔️Labour will cut Business Rates for small businesses by £1.5bn, and end Multi-Corps paying SMEs."

Iraq war.
Historic. Not Jeremy Corbyn. He voted against it.

IRA.
Historic. JC publicly tried to broker peace talks. Same as Thatcher (who lied and said she wasn't but did in secret).

What else have you got?

So AIBU and how?

OP posts:
Ylvamoon · 10/05/2017 22:43

OP - if JC is that brilliant, how do you explain the "brain train" from the party?
Why is the party split??? If he is that brilliant, he should be able to keep them all in check.

RealFakeDoors · 10/05/2017 22:45

Labour:

The PLP, the remains of Blair's time in power. They hate Corbyn and Momentum and many distrust the Unions.

Momentum, the new "party within a party". They hate the PLP, want to appease the Unions to gain influence and see themselves as the future of Labour.

Labour Party Members, a divided lot. A large number of clictivists who want to cause upset, but not if it requires them actually getting off their arses and campaigning. A fair number of left-of-centre supporters who are aghast at the chaos of Corbyn's time in charge.

The Unions, hoping to bring back a bygone era. Traditional old-school socialists trying to gain some political relevance in a post-Union age.

The hard left, still out there fighting their fight. They recently tried to infiltrate Momentum, but got called out. They're still there, hoping Corbin will win in the hope he opens the door to a more extreme version of left-wing politics.

And Corbyn. Where, exactly, does he stand with these various groups? Do he appear to be in charge of them? Does he have any control over the various power bases within Labour? Or is he a product of circumstance? A man who was in the right place at the right time, and who has not earned his position, borrowing power from groups he can't hope to stand up to if he ever gets to be PM?

Charisma in British politics doesn't just happen all by itself. Thatcher was a woman who led the Tories, you seriously think she didn't have a whole host of enemies within the party and its supporters? Blair took on a socialist party heavily dependent on the Unions and dragged it kicking and screaming into the centre - how many enemies did he make within the Labour party in the early days? But they both presented a united front, by hook or by crook, talking everyone who mattered round to the cause and moving those who didn't quietly (and ruthlessly) out of the way. Or facing down and beating those who put up a fight.

Now there's May, who, somehow, seems to have brought stability to a party on the verge of self-destruction less than a year ago. She may have a set of policies that will ruin the lives of millions of people, and may be presiding over nest of vipers, but at least she is able to present the image illusion? of being in charge of her party.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how good your policies are if too many people lack faith in your ability to successfully apply them. Blaming the media, the PLP, or the haters isn't going to fix the basic problem - Corbyn will lose because he is a poor leader.

myrtleWilson · 10/05/2017 22:47

Could you also please elaborate as to how he take anti semitism seriously? I think the press conference for the Shami Chakrabarti report (then independent now labour peer) into anti semitism had labour mp Ruth Smee reduced to tears and JC made no comment?

NoLotteryWinYet · 10/05/2017 22:51

if anyone wants to look in more detail at the analysis of various policies, the IFS has a series of election briefings

election2017.ifs.org.uk/

Sure more will come along as the manifestos come out.

bluegreenyellow · 10/05/2017 22:55

btw 'AIBU to want to counteract the lies I keep reading on here?

Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable/ a shambles/ can't lead.' all those statements are opinions and as such cannot be lies

Valentine2 · 10/05/2017 22:56

He may have voted against it but it was in the same spirit as he voted against intervention in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. It is disgraceful that an MP would ignore genocide.

That's the arrogance which is taking this country down the drains now. We.must.not.intervene. We.must.not.attack. We.are.NOT.the.police.of.the.world.

nakedscientist · 10/05/2017 22:56

I think I'd vote for Shrek Envy if it meant not having to listen to Mrs Smug Headmistressy May for the next 5 years lording it over us and speaking in tiny simplistic sound bites "strong and stable government" "bloody difficult woman" grrrrrrr. So many fall for that crap. Rock on MrsR, brave you are.

ComputerUserNotTrained · 10/05/2017 22:59

And the same spirit with which he forced members of his party to vote for Article 50 maybe?

Bluntness100 · 10/05/2017 22:59

Sweetie, labour will do none of that. They can't stop fighting. They won't get anything through parliament. That's your fundamental problem. He can promise you the earth on a plate. The simple fact is he can't deliver. Because they hate him. His own party hates him. The other parties hate him. The general public hate him. So it doesn't matter what he promises you, the simple truth is he can't make it happen.

You're not being unreasonable to think he can deliver. You're just being unrealistic.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 10/05/2017 23:03

Valentine2 - if you think that then you have blood on your hands. We must never, EVER stand by when tens of thousands of people are being slaughtered. Ask yourself what you would want if it were your children being gassed, shot, stabbed and buried alive. Not hyperbole - history.

Valentine2 · 10/05/2017 23:04

alltgeprettyseahorses
I think you will find that our interventions over the last decade have destroyed whole regions.

Blinkingblimey · 10/05/2017 23:05

ComputerUser - in France they have long had the system that if you want to go private for education you get what the state would pay for your child's place at a state school and you just pay the top up required by the private school..... But then their state schools are significantly better than ours so it's not widely used...

LauderSyme · 10/05/2017 23:08

MissWiggy Private schools do get a tax break.

Their charitable status saves them some £700m per year in VAT, corporation tax and business rates. So private schools get to keep an extra £700m per year which directly benefits their pupils - and by extension - parents. Like you.

IMO, private schools do not do nearly enough to earn their charitable status, instead being drivers of inequality, elitism and entrenched privilege. And you think the tax payer should throw even more money at you for helping to perpetuate this egregious system?

nakedscientist · 10/05/2017 23:08

Other scandals involve parading Diane Abbott naked for his mates

Errm ...... Diane is quite an outspoken lady, she's in his cabinet, she was in his bed with the duvet pulled up to her neck when friends arrived. (Telegraph report 1979) . If she was not happy, we"d know....

ComputerUserNotTrained · 10/05/2017 23:08

I think Valentine is making the point that his dogmatic opposition to all things military - including humanitarian work - is dangerous. I hadn't given any thought to his voting record on Sierra Leone and Kosovo before - needless to say it's not helping him go up in my estimations Grin

AllThePrettySeahorses · 10/05/2017 23:09

Valentine2

What do you think would have happened if we hadn't intervened? Peace, butterflies and singing? Quite the opposite.

bastardcoward · 10/05/2017 23:10

Have always voted Labour but as pp have said, Corbyn is just not a great leader and does not give me any confidence that he can run this country. He's just too far left for me to be comfortable.

MrsRuby · 10/05/2017 23:10

Sorry - have had a crying baby to soothe back to sleep and am now off to join him.

Thanks for the discussion, debate, refuting and educating.

Will attempt to return tomorrow but maybe we'll all be a lot older and wiser in the morning.......

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/05/2017 23:11

To not support your twice elected leader smacks of treachery

So does voting hundreds of times against your own party Hmm

Is it just me, or are there some really odd posts on here today ... ?

April229 · 10/05/2017 23:31

Well done OP :)

OhGodWhatTheHellNow · 10/05/2017 23:34

Gish Gallop Angry

whenthewindblows · 10/05/2017 23:39

@IloveKermit
The note said "There is no money". The Tories added the word 'left' every time they talked about the note (and did so very effectively, since that's how you recalled it seven years later) to imply that Labour had overspent.

goose1964 · 10/05/2017 23:41

It doesn't help that we have a right wing media, including the BBC whose head of politics is an old Etonian

Valentine2 · 10/05/2017 23:45

What do you think would have happened if we hadn't intervened? Peace, butterflies and singing? Quite the opposite.

A. That's NOT the answer of my question. We started an illegal war in Iraq and the whole region is smoking now.

B. When you don't go and bomb billions into other countries, you do save a lot of money to spend on your own country.

ExplodedCloud · 10/05/2017 23:49

when and conveniently forgets that it's not the first note left by outgoing treasury ministers to the same effect. Reginald Maudling left one for James Callaghan apologising for the 'mess'.

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