To want to counter these lies?

[MrsRuby]

AIBU to want to counteract the lies I keep reading on here?

Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable/ a shambles/ can't lead.

He's been an mp for 34 years, always voted on his principals, never been involved in scandal, claims a pittance in expenses, lives in his constituency, voted in as leader of his party by a large majority twice, has been responsible for a huge surge in party members, elicits genuine interest and support from the public, can debate and speak publicly without scripted answers.

The NHS is too big to be saved/where is the money coming from.
Conservatives bailed bankers out with 180 billion. 30 billion is needed to 'save' NHS. The money is there and can be costed through taxing top 5% of earners (see below). That's only people earning over 80k (not 40k or 55k or any other number I've seen on this site. Anyone earning over 80k - again that's just the top 5% of earners in this country) will have to pay a LITTLE bit more tax). Here is a break down of many other policies and how they will be paid for;

✔️Labour will reverse the Tory Party cut in Corporation Tax saving the UK Taxpayer £64 billion over a parliamentary cycle (OBR)

✔️Free School Meals for children aged 4-11, costing £900m which will be raised by placing VAT on Independent Schools which will raise £1.1bn+

✔️£10 per hour Minimum Wage for all over 18 years benefiting 5.5m workers, paid for by the private sector firms, and savings in reduced Working Tax Credit payments

✔️A 17% increase in the unpaid carers’ allowance worth £500 a year, paid for by reversing the recent Inheritance Tax cut
Renationalise the Railways, which will cost nothing because we’ll take railways into public ownership as franchises lapse

✔️Halt the tender of NHS contracts to private health, phasing out the £48bn given to private health since 2010. This will save taxpayers between £3.5bn-£5bn in reduced profits paid to private health

✔️Build 200,000 homes a year, half from the private sector at zero cost to the taxpayer. The rest would be Council Homes paid for by giving Councils the power to borrow against existing assets. Consequently, the UK’s £12bn Housing Benefit bill to private landlords would start to fall.

✔️Introduce 4 new public holidays per year that BoE say would be cost neutral due to increased expenditure by the public on those days off, £2.3bn.

✔️End Zero Hour Jobs by guaranteeing any worker on regular hours a contract. This carries zero cost to the taxpayer.

✔️A ban on companies based in tax havens, or those who pay their CEOs more than £350,000, bidding for government contracts. This carries no cost to the taxpayer.

✔️Halt the opening of new Free Schools and new Grammars which will save the taxpayer money as NAO says Free Schools cost double what was originally intended.

✔️Ban ‘sweetheart’ deals between the HMRC & Multi-Corps and make the big firms publish their tax returns. This will increase tax revenue because it becomes harder for firms to hide profits.

✔️Eradicate the Gender Pay Gap by making firms publish their pay differentials between men & women. This will increase UK tax revenue from higher wages.

✔️Labour will cut Business Rates for small businesses by £1.5bn, and end Multi-Corps paying SMEs."

Iraq war.
Historic. Not Jeremy Corbyn. He voted against it.

IRA.
Historic. JC publicly tried to broker peace talks. Same as Thatcher (who lied and said she wasn't but did in secret).

What else have you got?

So AIBU and how?

I saw Jeremy at a rally during the leadership campaign and he was extremely passionate and inspirational.

He gets his character assassinated by the media on a daily basis and I can only assume that this is due to his policies affecting the privileged detrimentally.

Labour 'spent spent spent' so why was national debt basically static 1997-2010 then more than doubled whilst most of the country was being hammered by 'austerity'

You know that oh so important policy that's been quietly dropped...without any acknowledgement of how unnecessary it was or why the city has been able to continue to maintain silly bonus levels throughout

Frankie it's been 'dropped' in name only. The planned cuts are continuing on for a few more years if the Conservatives hold on to power. Philip Hammond has been very quiet since his forced U turn.

Having read the OP, the scales have fallen from my eyes, and I can see that Corbyn is leading the Labour Party into the promised land.

If of course the promised land is a generation of being in opposition and left wing in-fighting whilst the Tories are left to run amok. Because it is much more important to be ideologically sound than to actually win elections. Just look at that New Labour lot. Just because they won three elections doesn't make them any more than a bunch of red Tories. How dare they actually win power and improve public services. They had to compromise on the socialist vision and hence are traitors. Much better to build a cabal of activist who can rant and rave whilst the Tory ship sails off and leaves them on the dock.

(For the avoidance of doubt, the above is sarcastic, Corbyn is driving the Labour Party to its grave and those of us on the centre left are fucked)

Conservatives bailed bankers out with 180 billion.

Labour bailed the banks out for £500 billion. Not sure where you are getting this figure from or when it's supposed to have happened.

30 billion is needed to 'save' NHS. The money is there and can be costed through taxing top 5% of earners (see below). That's only people earning over 80k (not 40k or 55k or any other number I've seen on this site. Anyone earning over 80k - again that's just the top 5% of earners in this country) will have to pay a LITTLE bit more tax).

I suggest you have a look at the failure of Hollande's tax raising policies in France. Didn't raise any significant funds and was dropped. Same likely to happen here.

*Labour will reverse the Tory Party cut in Corporation Tax saving the UK Taxpayer £64 billion over a parliamentary cycle (OBR)

This will stunt economic growth and lower tax receipts in other areas. Companies would pull out of the UK costing jobs and resulting in less income tax and VAT being paid and less corporation tax being paid overall as companies pulling out would pay 0% corporation tax because they wouldn't be here. Laid off workers would also hit the benefits bill. As we are Brexiting we need to make the UK an attractive place to do business, not drive business away.

Free School Meals for children aged 4-11, costing £900m which will be raised by placing VAT on Independent Schools which will raise £1.1bn+

This will mean that many children will move from the private sector to state. I doubt this has been costed in. The extra cost of educating them would probably reduce receipts to nil if not creating a minus balance.

£10 per hour Minimum Wage for all over 18 years benefiting 5.5m workers, paid for by the private sector firms, and savings in reduced Working Tax Credit payments

This will probably also lead to mass lay offs and a hit to the welfare bill. I agree it's a good idea, but the sums don't add up in the way which is being claimed, it will be more costly.

Build 200,000 homes a year, half from the private sector at zero cost to the taxpayer. The rest would be Council Homes paid for by giving Councils the power to borrow against existing assets. Consequently, the UK’s £12bn Housing Benefit bill to private landlords would start to fall

Net migration to the U.K. is 273,000 per year. It is likely to be significantly higher under Labour. This would simply keep the housing crisis around current levels rather than solving it. It would therefore be unlikely to cause any significant drop in the housing benefit bill.

A ban on companies based in tax havens, or those who pay their CEOs more than £350,000, bidding for government contracts. This carries no cost to the taxpayer.

Again, this would make the UK an unattractive place to do business. It would also mean that companies who had the most experience and could provide the best and most cost effective services would be banned, most likely replaced with less experienced companies offering inferior services at higher cost.

Ban ‘sweetheart’ deals between the HMRC & Multi-Corps and make the big firms publish their tax returns. This will increase tax revenue because it becomes harder for firms to hide profits.

Or it will see a drop in tax receipts as firms relocate out of the UK and lay off staff.

Eradicate the Gender Pay Gap by making firms publish their pay differentials between men & women. This will increase UK tax revenue from higher wages.

Or men's wages will be held back to make it more equitable resulting in lower tax receipts overall. Or some staff will have to be laid off to increase women's wages meaning there will be no overall increase. Or (most likely) it will make bugger all difference as firms will be able to justify it by pointing out that career breaks, part time hours and a tendency for women to choose lower skilled and paid career options means it's entirely fair.

Iraq war. Historic. Not Jeremy Corbyn. He voted against it.

The rest of his MPs mostly didn't. If it's historic why are the left wing always banging on about Thatcher? (See below).

IRA. Historic. JC publicly tried to broker peace talks. Same as Thatcher (who lied and said she wasn't but did in secret).

But the Good Friday agreement which ended the conflict was begun and based on work by the Major government which was, er, Conservative.

What else have you got?

The sums don't add up and it would turn us into an economic basket case at a hugely sensitive time and would probably end up with a monumentally huge recession.

He would be a crap prime minister. I don't give a shit about his principles or how long he has been an mp

So you don't care about principles or experience, you just want someone who can spin the press and wear a nice suit?

You get the government you deserve. And you're gonna have years of Tory scum burning down everything good.

His judgement in appointing Diane Abbott to the front bench shows he's unfit to be PM.

His judgement in appointing John McDonnell to the front bench shows he's unfit to be PM.

He has been a thorn in the side of the PLP with his "rebellions" for years and has the cheek to demand loyalty now.

He should have done the honourable thing and resigned after the vote of no confidence.

I have zero confidence in his ability to lead.

I don't get it either. People are so shallow nowadays and unable to think beyond looks and character. So what if corbyn isn't charismatic?

Since when did Laura Keunssberg go to Eton Goose1964?

Seems OP ran away when AllThePrettySeaHorses called her out on the propaganda and flagrant lies!

You know when he burned his bridges with me? And most of the rural community?

When he was first elected as leader and announced his shadow agriculture minister. She was a vegan anti-farming activist. It was unbelievable. The most arrogant two fingers to the entire farming community.

Summed up for me the arrogance and unpleasantness of the man.

Why are people still going on about nice suits? Do you not read the thread?

I can't believe people just dismiss people's concerns with meh he wears a crinkly shirt.

Yes a trawl of the IFS website will provide anyone with ample policy based reasons not to vote for labour under his leadership. Leaving completely aside his tactics, personality, what types of jam he likes, lack of talent in his team, anti-semitism, militants in the party etc.

I voted for Miliband, he had as much charisma as the Ed stone. It's got nothing to do with how he looks for me - May is wooden, I am not voting Tory on personality

BillSykesDog- fully agree with your post.
Current Labour policies will be disastrous for the economy ....
Which will have a direct impact on everyone living and working in this country. (And the ones relying on benefits, as I doubt they will overturn universal credits any time soon!)

OP- please comment and say something I can agree with!!! (Without mentioning Unicorns & Flower Ferries.)

I call bullshit. Corbyn is awful at PMQs. Sometimes it's painful to watch

What? You really consider the sneering face of answer-avoiding May is the face you want to keep seeing the next five years?
I think he shines in PMQs. That's how decent men talk. And that's how you should talk on national affairs. I don't want noisy, shouty, pseudo hyper May at it for another five years. I want to see discussion, not a prime minister who avoids answering questions.

Totally agree with this.

You may see a "decent man" at PMQs, I see a man out of his depth. If he was any good May wouldn't be able to wriggle out of giving answers. It's not as though she wipes the floor with him; she totally ignores him.

Theresa May ignoring questions from Jeremy Corbyn and the public reflects badly on her. not him. That is what I see.
It makes her look as if she has no answers past soundbites and poorly scripted mocking. And it is a pathetic spectacle, she is insulting the people who have bothered to watch PMQs for those answers and that won't be forgotten.

Agree with you , OP but the Tory party is very good at PR and I can see them winning at this election

I was just about to come on and say 'hang on a minute, what are you talking about, LABOUR bailed out the banks, I'm sure I'm right about that - Alistair Darling did it!?!?' But Bill got there before me.

Why would you start a thread talking about how you want to counteract lies and then put massive lies in your OP?

There have been about eleventy billion threads saying, to paraphrase, 'Jeremy is lovely and anyone who doesn't see it is a sheeple who reads the Daily Mail'.

I am a lifelong Labour voter. I like a lot of his policies. I think he's woefully, unbelievably bad at being leader so he'll never get a chance to put them into practice. And that's a Labour voter!

The media is vicious to every labour leader, but not every labour leader goes 20 points behind a shit, incompetent Tory government. The voters, including former labour voters, have seen what's on offer and decided 'no thanks'.

Rallies and party membership are nice, but mean the square root of fuck all because they represent about 2% of the numbers needed to form a government.

Posted too soon.

Saying Corbyn is unelectable is not a lie. He's unelectable BECAUSE THE VOTERS DON'T WANT TO ELECT HIM.

Saying otherwise because you like him is magical thinking, and unfortunately the reason Labour will be crushed in June and we'll be stuck with another five fucking years of the Tories.

JC has come up with a lot of bizarre, impractical and ill thought-out policies but the four extra bank holidays takes the cake. Does anyone actually want four extra bank holidays? And won't they simply get rolled into existing holiday allowances by employers, thus leaving people no better off (worse off, in fact, since they'll have less freedom to plan their holidays)?

YANBU at all.

Thanks for this

I was quite excited by Jeremy Corbyn when he was first elected party leader, but I think he's failed to capitalise significantly on his leadership. He doesn't seem to be getting Labour into a position where they can win more seats and take a majority, which is surely the point. So while I don't care about a lot of the criticism leveled against him, he doesn't seem to be doing a better or worse job than Ed Milliband, for example. Time for the next person to try I'd say.

Great thread OP, we need more of those. Do people really believe that TM would be a better PM than JC? If she wins the elections, then this country will get the government they deserve.
And to the PP who is fortunate enough to be able to afford a private school for her kids and expects a tax break for that just... wow!