AIBU to say only psychopaths support fox hunting

[lubeybooby]

the kind who would laugh at and enjoy watching kittens being set on fire (animal cruelty especially early in lifeis a marker for psychopathic tendencies)

Because it's just the same as that. Animal cruelty plain and simple.

Imagine a group of thugs chasing a terrified animal to give it a horrible death

Now imagine they are posh people on horseback

VILE

Theresa May makes me angrier every day. Disgusting excuse of a person.

I don't give a shit if you live in the country or anywhere in fact and foxes are a nuisance to you - kill them humanely if you must!

Redpony, they often intend to come back for the rest which is why they kill them.

I support controlling fox numbers. I don't know enough about hunting to know if it's the best way to do that.

Why don't we leave the foxes alone and hunt Tories instead?

I sometimes wonder how these so-called humans will feel if we give files to some other people on horses who also have a pack of hounds trained to kill and then let them loose on these hunters so they have to run for their lives, knowing full well they can't run forever?
I feel this kind of hatred for all hunters.

Fruitcocktail6

An old guy once said to me, in one way or another you always pay for your meat. Weather it's physical effort if financial, a price will be paid.

I'm not trying to be rude ( says the person that's about to say something rude ) but I do think you're a bit prescious.

Foxes will be killed. (either by a farmer or by "posh people on horseback".. Well, it's not actually said people killing the fox, but anyhow...)

Tbh, I think most people opposed to fox hunting are quite hypocritcal. I'd rather be a fox living in the wild (and maybe end up being killed during a hunt) than a chicken/cow/pig in a factory farm.

And whilst the meat we eat is organic and local... The animal is still killed. And I have eaten factory farmed meat on some occasions without loosing any sleep over it... Most people have done the same. If I really cared about animals I'd be vegan, stop wearing wool jumpers, stop using my favourite concealer etc...

But I don't. So no, I don't particularly care about fox hunting. I'm not even necessarily pro-fox hunting. But comparing the few foxes killed this way to all the other animals in factory farms? Or even people and especially children living under opressive regimes or in otherwise terrible situations? I guess it just doesn't seem to matter to me personally.

I am not pro but FYI-

Foxes will kill all chickens in the coop it is nothing to do with them needing to eat. They are also not clean killers. The average fox hunt death is something like 11 seconds, they are ripped apart insanely quickly on been caught although there may be many hours of stress before.

Also I would agree the foxes have a much nicer life than the farm animals we all eat. I'd much rather live a full exciting life with an awful death than be locked up, cramp with no stimulation and then have a humane death. Both are pretty awful when you think about it but I'd much rather be a fox than a farm chicken. Yes the chicken is going to be eaten but not by someone who'd die without it more likely by someone eating a box of 24 hot wings. I see a foxes death on the same lines as meat eaten by a fat person- it is for pleasure not sustenance.

Redpony Foxes keep larders, and if undisturbed, will ferry their kills back to their various larders to eat later. They're not just killing with gay abandon.

I grew up in the country and I think hunting for "sport" should be banned.

same with bullfighting
Exactly! All this must be discussed, not used as an excuse to allow fox hunting again.

It's a hideous hideous sport. Totally agree op.

Foxes don't kill for the fun of killing

They like to stock up on lots of food and store it, so when food isn't so plentiful, they know exactly where to go to get a quick easy meal.

So your chickens are a perfect opportunity to bulk out their food larder ready for when there's a food shortage or Cubs to feed

Honestly, banning fox hunting won't lead to more happy foxes. They'll just be gunned down.

Most people that own chickens (or rabbits or similar animals) seem to hate foxes with a passion.

when they make it a town/city vs. the country thing too like with the "Countryside" Alliance. I grew up in the countryside and most of the people I knew were against hunting. Please don't make out that everyone in the countryside supports bloodsports

Not all Tories do either. Me for one. But hey, it's fine to generalise when referring to Tories on mumsnet. Today alone I've read Tories being referred to as "abnormal" "psycho" "lunatic" try doing that on any other thread.

AllTouched
You have to ask how would foxes be humanly killed? Poison is not good as you can't target just the fox. Traps can leave an animal dying of starvation after days of agony.

Anyways I think the % of foxes killed by hunting are tiny, so it doesn't really keep the population done so isn't a good argument for.

I don't know about psychopaths, but what really pisses me off about fox hunting is the blatant classism of it. More working-class blood 'sports' have been (thankfully) largely wiped out. Only difference as far as I can tell is, as you say OP, that fox hunters are posh people on horseback.

I grew up rurally, and went to school with children from established farming families. All farmers in the area had the need to control the fox population, and had their means of doing it.

But a huge part of the farming culture was respect for their livestock and appreciation for their land and animals. Animals were treated well and slaughtered as humanely as possible. They were all utterly against any unnecessary harm being caused to any animal, including foxes.

I see fox hunting as a way for certain communities to play at being country folk, but with no understanding of the culture that exists in rural farming areas. If they did understand it, they wouldn't do it.

Boils my piss.

I think hunting for sport should be banned too.

We are pretty 'country', and DH is posh and a committed Tory voter. He also used to hunt, shoot and fish. He was brought up doing it.

He was vegan for 8 years when we first met. lacto-ovo veg for the past 15 years and asked me last week if we could go vegan again full time.

Safe to say that hunting shooting and fishing is WAY off his agenda nowadays. Still a committed Tory though- so not all the stereotypes people like to rely on apply.

As other posters have said, foxes do not kill for 'fun', they would (if allowed to) cache the food for later.
If chickens are killed, it is the fault of the owner for not providing secure enough fencing. We are allowed to eat the chickens but the fox must die if he does .

I am another country bumpkin who hates fox hunting with a passion.

Foxes are not nice fluffy animals.

But they are living creatures. The mentality of someone who thinks it's fun to gallop around in a huge pack, chasing that terrified living creature to its doom, and then watching it being ripped apart is fucking disgusting. We are supposed to have evolved beyond that. Going around the night before, blocking up the dens, and digging them out with terriers are hardly fair tactics either. You can have all the fun without the bloodlust if you drag hunt, so all the arguments about keeping the hounds and keeping the horses fit are hollow.

I have a friend who shoots pheasant; I can hardly be civil to him either. Shooting ONE pheasant to eat it, ok, I wouldn't do it as i'm vegetarian, but that would be different. Going out for fun to shoot as many birds as you can is revolting.

blood sports are vile.

I'd much rather live a full exciting life with an awful death than be locked up, cramp with no stimulation and then have a humane death.

Why in the world this argument keeps coming up? You don't go and kill just because you think others are killing too.

Oh do fuck off with your "posh people" bollocks. Honestly it's the dead giveaway that you know fuck all about hunting and horse people beyond the fluffy factor.

I have lived in the country most of my life and can hand on heart say that every single one of the families we know who hunt are probably what could be described as "posh". Well off families with lots of land/money etc. Without exception. A smallish sample for sure, but we are talking dozens of families not just one or two. I won't be the only one to have direct experience of this.

Maybe you can answer a question for me FlyingElbows since I assume you hunt. I hear a lot of "reasons" for hunting but none of them ring true to me.

1. Hunting to control the fox population - well dozens of people dressed to the nines, dozens of horses and a huge pack of dogs chasing a single fox for a whole day hardly strikes me as an efficient or effective way of carrying out a cull. If this were the real reason, there are a hundred better ways to do it.

2. It's "tradition" - well so was burning witches at the stake a couple of hundred years ago but as a society we tend to shed the more barbaric practices as we become more civilised, more socially aware etc. We don't blindly continue with other practices that we know to be cruel or inhumane so why is fox hunting so different?

3. It's good exercises for the horses and dogs - lots of horse owners are able to exercise their animals without also ripping apart a fox in the process. The packs of dogs are bred for the purpose of hunting so they wouldn't actually need exercising if there were no hunts because they wouldn't exist. Again, other dogs in England are exercised without being taken on a hunt.

Which leaves us with the only logical conclusion - hunters enjoy seeing a living animal ripped into pieces before their eyes. They like the extreme fear that the fox is subjected to. They like the blood. They love the fox cubs being tossed to the dogs after their mother has been torn limb from limb and subjected to the most unimaginable pain.

So here is my question. Why do fox hunters lie about their reasons for hunting? Why can they not admit the real appeal in it and why do they make up ridiculous excuses for it? If they genuinely believe that they are doing nothing wrong then why must they lie about it?

And as others have said, this reliance on 'tradition' is a crock. Dressing up and having a fabulous time belting over fences is one thing that can be done without the death.

I actually know a sociopath (not a misuse of the word he really is) and he regularly hunts (rags). He's a knob by the way for lots of other reasons. I'm personally against fox hunting, if foxes are such a nuisance and risking people's livelihood then I'm sure they do need to be dealt with humanly as awful as that is to people.

However I seriously do no understand why it takes 30+ people dressed In suits to kill one fox. Seems desperately inefficient- let's be honest it's more of a right of passage for a few 'string pullers' so they can dress like knobs, have a few too many brandies and see who has the biggest 'oss.

Rose

What's wrong with shooting pheasants? Shoot a few, cook some and pop the others in the freezer...

Buying chicken isn't better (from an animal welfare point of view).

Our local hunt still catches foxes 'accidentally'.

I can't see how fox hunting can be okay when dog fighting and badger baiting are not.

All of these so-called "sports" are equally vile and unspeakably cruel.