AIBU to say only psychopaths support fox hunting

[lubeybooby]

the kind who would laugh at and enjoy watching kittens being set on fire (animal cruelty especially early in lifeis a marker for psychopathic tendencies)

Because it's just the same as that. Animal cruelty plain and simple.

Imagine a group of thugs chasing a terrified animal to give it a horrible death

Now imagine they are posh people on horseback

VILE

Theresa May makes me angrier every day. Disgusting excuse of a person.

I don't give a shit if you live in the country or anywhere in fact and foxes are a nuisance to you - kill them humanely if you must!

Frilly, all the way along this thread, you have employed a load of whataboutery to distract from the fact that you enjoy blood sports.

Have a good day at the hunt, watching foxes ripped apart - or, sitting on your horse at the back while a fox is ripped apart.

There's plenty of photographic evidence of foxes being used as chew toys, not sure why pro-hunters are denying it. Like I said, stop bullshitting and just be honest about why you do it. It's a social event.

Frilly, you say you follow the hunt to keep your horse fit. However, chasing a fox involves a lot of standing about waiting and an uncertain course. Drag hunting surely is preferably if this is genuinely your reason as there is a fixed route designed around selected obstacles, therefore you'll not be attempting to jump jagged dry stone walls or fences that contain barb wire? However, this is organised fun I suspect. No kill, no thrill, nothing unexpected. In conclusion, from the perspective of your horse's welfare, drag hunting is undeniably preferable, and it's a circular argument because your horse would need to be fit to follow a hunt, the hunt itself doesn't make your horse fit.

Beerwench, I do get where you're trying to go with the hunt saboteur argument, obviously pulling on reins and unseating riders is wrong (frightening for horses, not sure that a hard tug would bruise their mouths or injure their backs though).

However, for the two wrongs to be equal, the saboteurs would need to be setting dogs on the horses to chase them till their lungs pack up and then maul them to death. So, while I get it, I'm not sure your argument stands up to close scrutiny.

Frilly, all the way along this thread, you have employed a load of whataboutery to distract from the fact that you enjoy blood sports

I have never once done that - I love hunting and I've tried to explain why. We run a commercial shoot, I've never tried to play down blood sports, I'm just dumbfounded that 26 pages later, you still can't read the posts and are stating misinformation about foxes being ripped to shreds.

Anyway - hound puppies to see to - I'm not swaying any opinion here.

sleep as I said, we are a vale pack, so not infinitely large amounts of time were spent stood still unless I chose to be on point.

We hunt a laid trail now within the law with a bird of prey to quarry. It's not dissimilar to drag hunting, but four out of my six horses are eventers, one of which is a 1* horse, so hunting drag lines and encouraging them to team chase their country is incredibly bad for my summer season eventing.

Ah yes frilly - you're the 'animal lover' who defends hunting....

Foxes are still ripped apart by hounds on hunts - that is verifiable - it has been filmed. I'm surprised you have the sheer nerve to deny that - while trying to make out others don't know the "ways of the country".

Anyway - hound puppies to see to - I'm not swaying any opinion here.
Why on earth would you think you could All you have done is minimise and justify
We hunt a laid trail now within the law with a bird of prey to quarry

Utter bollocks. But nice try anyway.

Just to clarify Frilly, are you saying riding with a pack of hounds and other riders at your flank helps your solitary round at Hickstead?

I've never seen a pack of riders attempt the Derby Bank enmasse? How does it help exactly?

Utter bollocks. But nice try anyway.

See, this is why I'm really not arsed about engaging in "debate" with you any more.

I've stated a fact which I can quantify (as can any number of hunts as we now film ourselves trail laying and hunting laid scent) and I've been told I'm lying. Probably by some bin type eating their nasty Lidl Dutch bacon sat in their trackies made in some Indian sweat shop - cherry picked morals for your cherry picked argument. It's pointless entering into any reasoned argument with you when you can't even read the other side of the debate.

What pack do you follow Frilly?

I've stated a fact which I can quantify
Go on then...... let see the evidence? Lets see the footage of scent laying and the bird of prey your hunt uses? What scent do they use? Fox urine?

Probably by some bin type eating their nasty Lidl Dutch bacon sat in their trackies made in some Indian sweat shop - cherry picked morals for your cherry picked argument

Oh dear.

Getting around the Hunting Act

"The point I was making, is that it's ridiculous to form your opinion on the morality of an activity (in this case fox hunting) because you don't like the way a small number of people campaign against it. Two wrongs don't make a right. So you were against the idea of a fox ripped to shreds by hounds, but then you saw a sab pull a rider off a horse and you thought "actually, he's a bit of a twat so I've changed my mind and I think fox hunting is alright now". You should be capable of separating those two issues."

But Rat, I've repeatedly said that I don't think fox hunting is OK. I've also said that sabbing and using violence to do so is not OK and the fact that sabs do hurt the horses/hounds, is not defensible because they are defending hunting.
My whole point is if you (not you personally the larger you) condemn hunting as cruel because its a choice to do so, why don't you condemn the 'choice' of the sabs to distress and hurt horses and hounds?
It would seem from the responses to my posts saying that the sabs are also cruel are that either it's just a minority, or that because I don't turn a blind eye to their actions, I'm condoning hunting. Not true.
I had my eyes opened to some of the methods used to protest hunting, in a most personal way - I choose to not support hunting, I also choose to not support sabbing.

I can and have separated the two, on the fence means swayed by neither argument because I don't believe hunting is excusable under the argument of culling foxes by necessity, but I also don't believe that violence towards the animals participating in the hunt is excusable either.
To defend sabs actions or explain them away as one offs, collateral damage or any other argument is hypocritical - either you don't like animal cruelty, from any side, or you accept it.

If you think hunting is not on, but accept that some horses/hounds will get affected by protests, and add to that the terminology of 'posh people on horses' and similar, IMO it comes down to a class issue.

It's basically saying that hunting isn't OK because hunters are posh, but sabbing is because they're not posh. And that's why I think underneath it is a class thing for some people. Not all but some.

Frilly has made some of the most unpleasant posts I've ever seen on here. Wriggling around insulting other people as she tries to justify a vile, selfish, inhumane pursuit - all because she can't accept that she enjoys killing things, and doesn't care that things get killed so that she can have a nice day out.

Urgh!

Oh fuck sorry, I forgot only inverse snobbery is accepted and even encouraged on this forum- apologies.

It's a vale pack in the East Midlands- I'll let you work it out.

"However, for the two wrongs to be equal, the saboteurs would need to be setting dogs on the horses to chase them till their lungs pack up and then maul them to death. So, while I get it, I'm not sure your argument stands up to close scrutiny."

You've kind of proven my point there sleep. The horses and hounds have no more choice than the fox to be a part of it, they are being hurt by people who are saying they're defending animal welfare by um, hurting other animals, which is hypocritical.

Protesters at Parliament, not hypocrisy. Protestors using non physical means to disrupt a hunt, not hypocrisy.
Protestors putting animals used for hunting in the firing line for their cause, hypocrisy.

Why not simply name the hunt Frilly? Given that you, by your own admission, have wanted to engage in debate and present a balanced view of hunting, transparency is key.... is it not?

Probably by some bin type eating their nasty Lidl Dutch bacon sat in their trackies made in some Indian sweat shop - cherry picked morals for your cherry picked argument

sabs are mostly vegetarians
I think of joining them myself, but not sure yet how

Interesting how sabs and monitors receive much of their intel from within the hunt community itself

Beyondworried

Well, primarily because I have no intention of being quoted by the DM. But all three large vale packs around the EM video and post their trail laying so it isn't hard to find on google?

I'm not trying to be outwardly awkward, I'm just frustrated that I put a point across with some thought and then I get an inane response.

I can see why you think it's barbaric, honestly - I can. I hunt primarily to ride, because I enjoy big country and I have some cracking horses. My husband rides to hunt, he loves following hounds and watching them work - it's not as thrilling watching them follow an artificial scent as a live one because of the trail laying aspect rather than the kill.

Hounds do not rip foxes apart, that is not the trait of a good hound. It honestly isn't a load of hoorahs rathered around the torn up carcas of a fox, baying and quaffing port.

If you do want to come out with us and see what we actually do, within the law, and understand a bit more about it - I'm honestly happy for you to message me and come with me on foot or horse one day this autumn - I'm quite a friendly person. I'd really like you to see for yourself that we're not a bunch of chinless wonders. The offer is there if you want to.

I've stated a fact which I can quantify (as can any number of hunts as we now film ourselves trail laying and hunting laid scent) and I've been told I'm lying

Yet you've just posted again the claim that hounds don't rip foxes apart, when there is masses of unassailable evidence that that is precisely what they do. Sure, it may not be what a good hound does, but there seem to be an awful lot of bad hounds in hunt packs. Why given them the opportunity?

I grew up both posh and rural. Not too far from where this happened:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39106140

You're absolutely right Frilly, most hounds just lick the fox lovingly to a painless unmarked easy death

Frilly I used to hunt and worked in a hunt/point to point yard.... I know exactly what goes on so please spare my the spin.
Interesting you are reluctant to quote the name of the 'vale' hunt you follow. If you or the hunt have nothing to hide I would have thought you would welcome closer scrutiny from those who acceding to you don't have much of a clue. You state your hunt film themselves laying trails and using a bird of prey.... can you direct us to this footage? I would have thought hunts would be falling over themselves to put this into the public domain.
I will leave you with this little gem....

Strange place for this hunt to lay a trail isn't it Rose