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AIBU?

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Why is MN so transphobic?

296 replies

user1494271474 · 08/05/2017 20:36

I really don't understand it but it makes me sad. Trans people just want to get on with their lives and are at more risk of being harmed or murdered than anyone else.

OP posts:
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Datun · 09/05/2017 19:56

I totally agree monkey. But this thread is in AIBU.

On the FWR boards it's taken time to reach conclusions. We checked, analysed, read. Checked again. Shared information. Spoke to parents, transwomen, went online.

Had input from lawyers, doctors, healthcare professionals, even politicians.

Very aware that a lot of people simply just don't know all this stuff.

poorbuthappy · 09/05/2017 19:59

I read something on FB ((I know ) about how apparently now our interns organs have a sex.
So male heart / kidney / liver etc.
I wonder how this is going to impact the waiting times for a transplant....

Barcoo2 · 09/05/2017 20:00

OP has vanished Hmm

DontPullThatTubeOut · 09/05/2017 20:33

poor my little girl must have got a boys heart then she is so boisterous and growls a lot 😂

On a serious note, I think the op may have left because she may be questioning if her choices were right. Judging by her earlier posts she finally realised that her playing with girl typical toys doesn't mean she had to be a girl. Either that or she was a troll the whole time. Or just busy lol

WankingMonkey · 09/05/2017 20:48

When I was little I liked playing with my sisters dolls and prams and wanting to wear pink but i was always told that was wrong, that was for girls so I was confused. Then I figured i must be a girl :/

I am a bit behind with the thread and just catching up but its so sad that people forced sex stereotypes on you in this way. Liking feminine things does not mean you 'must be a girl' and if you are genuine with saying that you have actually gone through genital surgery because of this misconception then I have no words. I genuinely hope your SRS makes you happy. However your posts throughout this thread show a shocking lack of empathy for female people. Sex segregation protects females from males. Males tend to be (on average) much stronger, larger and more violent than females. This is backed up by numerous statistics. So yeah, males should not be in female areas...especially 'fully intact' males. Note I say male/female rather than man/woman as the words man/woman seem to not have a meaning anymore...

For what its worth, someone who has gone through the effort and trauma of actually having genital surgery...personally I wouldn't mind them being in female areas(some people disagree with this and this is also fine). But I still don't believe they are female as they are not. They are trans. And should be proud to be trans, not kicking off as people won't recognize them as something they are not.

My problem is with the 'new' trans. Those who have a fetish, those who claim that their penis is a female organ and as such lesbians are transphobic for not wanting to suck it. Those who call transpeople who have dysphoria 'truscum' as 'dysphoria is not a requirement of being trans'. I would challenge anyone to tell me exactly how someone can be 'trans' without suffering sex dysphoria?

The current narrative is damaging to females, and to 'genuine transsexual people' alike.

StrangeLookingParasite · 09/05/2017 21:13

There was a thread a while ago where the OP was terrified about a possible new gender identity law and others on the thread shared their fear. Why? Why is other people gaining rights so scary to you? It doesn't impact you.

It does. Have you done no reading at all about this?

I never played with prams or dolls, or liked pink at any stage in my life. does that mean I'm not a woman? (rhetorical question).
I'm so tired of reality being called 'transphobic'.

Arealhumanbeing · 09/05/2017 21:20

Datun

Ok thanks. I'll have a google.

TheDowagerCuntess · 09/05/2017 21:36

When I was little I liked playing with my sisters dolls and prams and wanting to wear pink but i was always told that was wrong, that was for girls so I was confused. Then I figured i must be a girl :/

Is this for real?

This doesn't mean your a girl.

This means you like dolls, prams and wearing pink.

Bloody hell, gender stereotyping has so much to answer for. I've long wondered if the actual problem is gender stereotyping, and people feeling like they don't fit into the stereotype, rather than being the wrong gender per se.

And this just makes me think it even more.

TheDowagerCuntess · 09/05/2017 21:37
  • you're!!
RogueBiscuit · 09/05/2017 23:08

Do you honestly believe a man is going to stick on a dress and a wig and pretend to be transgender just to assault or rape a woman?

Yes I do. Don't insult people by suggesting that putting a dress on is too much trouble for a rapist.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=XAFcYTwn33A

womanmeanssomething.com/violencedatabase/

Unfortunately I can't find the link to the men who like to go into the women's bathrooms and wipe cum on the toilet rolls.

RogueBiscuit · 09/05/2017 23:30

They are women inside. They are women deep down and have always been but for some reason biology got it wrong and they were born with a male sexual resproductive system instead

Really? Because most transwoman don't consider transwoman real women. The transwoman in this dating group (and the thousands of others like it) specifically state . So much for they're real women!

So transwoman don't accept transwoman are women, but we should. Do one with that rubbish.

m.facebook.com/groups/349224978582927?ref=content_filter

Datun · 10/05/2017 00:22

RogueBiscuit

I must admit, I've seen that asked 1000 times. If you are real women, and only interested in women, why don't you ever date eachother?

The answer is because a penis is triggering to their gender dysphoria. But firstly, they don't specify that they only want a post op transwoman, they just say no transwomen.

And secondly why is the trigger of gender dysphoria a rocksolid reason not to date someone with a penis, but being a lesbian isn't?

That's the difference between a straight transwoman and gay one.

No, you're not a male lesbian. You are a straight guy with a fetish who is interested in girls. You know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

DontPullThatTubeOut · 10/05/2017 00:48

I just watched half the video and had to stop. I have two girls. I'm now worried even more for their safety 😔

Datun · 10/05/2017 09:26

DontPullThatTubeOut

Well quite. No one suggests that all transwomen are rapists, but all rapists are men.

Transwomen are men, with exactly the same male pattern violence.

I see so many arguments for including these men in women's spaces. Inclusivity. A man will rape you anyway, he doesn't need permission. A wholesale dismissal of male violence as being in any way relevant. And, they just need a place to pee.

I can argue against all these points. But lots of people are intransigent about it.

So I'll say again, watch what happens if you say no. Just suggest to a transactivist that they campaign for spaces of their own.

Datun · 10/05/2017 11:57

This is the natural result of transgender as an ideology.

The ideology part, because it is an identity belief system, is able to bypass gender dysphoria as the cornerstone of the description.

As the legislation stands, you cannot discriminate against somebody on the basis of their gender assignment. Maria Miller's amendment would replace that with gender identity. Because gender is a made up social role, there is no actual basis for it, other than what someone says.

And yes, feminists are worried about this because it's so woolly a description that anyone can don it.

But, putting that aside, this is the other strand of the ideology.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ysb_Isix5cM&feature=youtu.be

Laws to legitimise gender as an identity have already been passed in many countries. And it is creating havoc. Obviously.

Misgendering somebody is considered a hate crime. In this country it is considered a hate incident (I believe that the terminology). So not quite a crime. Yet.

And you may well roll your eyes and dismiss it. But using the correct pronouns and sanctions for refusing, is being considered by governments everywhere.

Prof Jordan Peterson at the University of Toronto is finally making a stand. He is becoming the distillation of the pro/against pronoun debate.

His employers have warned that, while they support his right to academic freedom and free speech, he could run afoul of the Ontario Human Rights code and his faculty responsibilities should he refuse to use alternative pronouns when requested

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37875695

Datun · 10/05/2017 11:58

Disregard the YouTube picture and just click on the bottom link. There is a glitch. I don't know why

Tartle · 10/05/2017 23:57

Datun just want to say how much I appreciate your input. You are always so calm, clear and insightful and I love how you seem so able to answer the same points/questions repeatedly without getting frustrated.

Datun · 11/05/2017 08:31

Tartle

I see women on mumsnet being so wonderfully supportive of other women. In abusive relationships, regarding their children, work, etc.

I see them being incisive, analytical, bloody funny, rude, clever, experienced, wise and vulnerable.

And then some of the exact same women come on the trans threads and say fuck off you hateful bigots. And bog off shaking their heads in a veritable storm of ruffled feathers.

It occurred to me that that just couldn't be right.

I know feminists aren't bigots. Of all people. Who can think that? They support every minority going!

And yet the disconnect keeps happening.

People who go on the baby threads talking about girls' toys and boys' toys, determined not to impose gender roles on their children, will come on the trans threads, not realising they're doing just that.

Women (people) are mostly kind and considerate. I get it.

So I'm more than prepared to talk about the trans issue, from both the erosion of women's rights point of view, the gender reinforcement point of view, the scandalous way children are being scrutinised for signs, etc. The mangling of language to accommodate the trans issue. All of which is only benefiting men, at the moment.

If someone is prepared to listen, they can then make up their own mind.

Because there is a very definite line drawn between men and women in this debate.

Transmen (women), aren't getting a look in. They're not changing men's language (because they can't), they're not challenging men's spaces (men don't care), they're not insisting that the word prostate is exclusionary (no one would listen), they're not perving on men, and they are not telling men that gender roles are harmful to them (as gender roles reinforce chauvinism not dismantle it, so men don't care).

They're not going on men's clothing websites and copping off at the thought of wearing a pair of pinstripes.

Think of the sexual harassment in our kids' schools, the ever prevalent porn, the tinder sites for youngsters (Yellow?), the way our girls are constantly asked to 'send nudes', etc. The constant objectification of young girls, from the media, TV shows and online. It's little wonder to me that girls transition to escape this. They see it as a form of Teflon coating. 'If I'm a boy, I can avoid all this'. Especially if they're gay. Which statistically, they will be.

Giving a girl the idea that the only way she can survive is by becoming a boy, is a complete failure of our society. Breast binders and shoving a fake penis in your pants cannot, must not be the answer. (They make fake penises for girls as young as four).

Trans is a rejection of your gender role in order to go straight ahead and vehemently adopt another one. And yet it doesn't work, because you still can't change sex.

You can't identify out of biology.

And they don't. Men don't, they still come across as wholly male (some far more than others). And women don't, they can't escape.

DontPullThatTubeOut · 17/05/2017 21:21

Sorry I'm only replying now datun

I just wanted to say that I agree with all that you say, you put it so much more eloquently than I ever could. Got banned from mumsnet for a week, hence the radio silence.

Datun · 17/05/2017 21:32

DontPullThatTubeOut

Blimey. Still, you're in good company Smile.

Welcome back.

TheDowagerCuntess · 18/05/2017 04:09

Yes, for people that say they don't identify as male, they sure do act and behave EXACTLY like men... Confused

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