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Original poster

Why is MN so transphobic?

296 replies

user1494271474 · 08/05/2017 20:36

I really don't understand it but it makes me sad. Trans people just want to get on with their lives and are at more risk of being harmed or murdered than anyone else.

OP posts:
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7
CoteDAzur · 08/05/2017 21:30

"I'm not male. I'm a transwoman"

You are a transwoman and you are male. See relevant definitions in any dictionary:

Male: Of the sex that can make sperm.
Female: Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs.

Regardless of how you feel, the surgeries you have, and the hormones you take, you will always be Of the sex that can make sperm and you will never be Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs.

This is biology and dictionary definitions. There is nothing bigoted or phobic about any of the above.

I wish you a happy, fulfilling life, and if changing your appearance to look like a woman has made you happy, then I am happy for you. But your operations, artificial hormones, and dresses have not actually made you a woman, since they have not made you female, as per dictionary definition of the word 'woman':

Woman: Adult human female.

AgathaMystery · 08/05/2017 21:31

Cote - Amen!

Tazerface · 08/05/2017 21:33

Actual lolz that people think that a 'science teacher' using spurious facts about fish and worms to compare to human beings!

Ok OP, you're trans. I'm a woman. I don't accept you as female because you aren't, I accept you as a trans woman because that's what you are.

I will always be on the side of women. That doesn't mean I'm against men or transwomen, it's just that my loyalties and support are first and foremost with women.

Sorry if that upsets you.

ParmaViolets17 · 08/05/2017 21:34

Cote - my body can't make sperm or eggs. What am I?

MNHQ
IonaMumsnet · 08/05/2017 21:38

Evening all. Just popping by with a quick reminder of the rules as we know threads on this subject often flare up. We want these discussions to be able to flow freely but, as with any thread, we will delete any posts that we consider to have been a personal attack or to have been made purely to inflame or antagonise. Peace and love etc.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 08/05/2017 21:38

Your father was wrong and horrible and abusive.

My son wanted a pram as a toddler. I bought him a pram. He played happily with it for several years.

And I have said on several threads before now that current "cross dress on a Saturday and alternate Wednesday" trans activists are damaging to both women and transwomen like yourself who suffer genuine dysphoria.

I second what others have said about looking up Miranda Yardley (in fact, she's just started a thread in the feminism section here in the last few days asking for comments on one of her recent blog posts), or her partner Helen Highwater who publishes a blog called "A guy called Helen". They are both gender-critical transwomen, who have made their own journey through their issues around dysphoria, internal feelings (for want of a better phrase) and their biological bodies.

CoteDAzur · 08/05/2017 21:39

"When I was little I liked playing with my sisters dolls and prams and wanting to wear pink but i was always told that was wrong, that was for girls so I was confused. Then I figured i must be a girl :/ ... I have had surgery and taken hormones."

This is horrible. I am so angry on your behalf, OP Angry

I have never played with dolls & prams. Toys and preferred color for clothes doesn't make someone one sex or the other. I have a daughter who never played with dolls (not once, Barbies remained in their boxes). Her favourite color is blue. She is female and always will be. She is a girl now and will one day be a woman.

I also have a son who plays with dolls, gives toys names and plays pretend games with them as if they are dolls. He is a boy and will one day be a man.

You have been lied to, OP. Playing with dolls and liking the color pink didn't mean that you had to cut off body parts and try to be like the opposite sex Sad

AssassinatedBeauty · 08/05/2017 21:39

ParmaViolets the definitions that Cote gave don't mean that you must be able to produce eggs/sperm. Just that you are of the sex that can produce eggs/sperm. A woman with health issues that affect her ability to produce eggs is still of the sex that can produce eggs.

RortyCrankle · 08/05/2017 21:40

I don't care if a person is trans or not.

I DO care about trans men:

being placed in a women's prison, especially when they are 'intact' and have a history of raping/assaulting women.

being allowed to race against real women when they have the massive advantage of much more testosterone than a real woman. It pisses me off a lot to see 3 trans men win the first three place in a women's race.

being allowed into women's changing rooms, refuges, homeless shelters and other traditionally 'safe' places.

I suggest you join the Women's Equality Party they don't give a fuck about real women, only trans men.

FlossyMooToo · 08/05/2017 21:41

Parma

Cote said Female: Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs the key word is can. Women/females can produce eggs. Some women/females cannot but they are still women/femaleses
However men can never produce eggs

AlabamaShakes · 08/05/2017 21:41

Parma - I no longer produce eggs, just like millions of women who have reached menopause etc

I'm still a woman

SmileEachDay · 08/05/2017 21:41

OP if you are genuine: you are a victim of abuse. This has resulted in you struggling with your mental health and that is a terrible, but not uncommon thing.

It is unfortunate that your mental health has not been supported in the appropriate way. That is also a terrible thing.

I really hope you are genuine, because if you aren't, you are stirring up fun for yourself at the expense of MH difficulties, which would y'know, be also a terrible thing.

HomityBabbityPie · 08/05/2017 21:42

Transmen are real women. They're biological females. I think you mean transwomen.

PacificDogwod · 08/05/2017 21:43

Parma, my body no longer ovulates, I am still a woman.
I am happy that my sex and my gender are not in conflict as they clearly are for the OP which must be very hard.

I do take Cote's point though and she is right, there is a difference between biology and social construct, between sex and gender; and while the vast majority are content being one or the other very clearly, for others the dividing/connecting line is much closer together.

It is all part of the rich tapestry of human life and I am very happy to embrace it all, but shall not be bulldozed by a tiny fraction of transactivists who are railroading their own agenda to the detriment of many, mainly women.

I agree with the OP that most actual transpeople just want to lead their lives. The transpeople I know in RL are people like anybody else with all the same problems as all of us. Transactivists otoh can be scary scary people with rather absurd and damaging agendas.
I do not wish my sons to grow up in a society in which this is not challenged for fear of being seen as 'transphobic'.
I am not transphobic, I am 'extremists-phobic', whatever the extremism is about tbh.

PacificDogwod · 08/05/2017 21:43

In fact, no, I am extremism-critical, not phobic Grin

CoteDAzur · 08/05/2017 21:43

"Cote - my body can't make sperm or eggs. What am I?"

You are a person who has not read my post properly. Note the words OF and CAN.

Female: OF the sex that CAN bear young or make eggs.
Male: OF the sex that CAN make sperm.

Young boys can't make sperm. Menopausal women can't have babies & in most cases don't have any eggs. They are still OF one sex or the other.

Dictionaries are wonderful things. A quick look will tell you the meaning of any word. I heartily recommend you to get one.

twelly · 08/05/2017 21:46

People re entitled to their views, just because you might disagree with them does not make them phobic, too often phobic is used to merely disagree

CoteDAzur · 08/05/2017 21:50

"my sex and my gender are not in conflict as they clearly are for the OP which must be very hard."

I don't have a gender. Gender is a societal construct that goes something like "Girls like pink and pretty glittery stuff. Boys like rough and tumble. Girls like dolls, boys like cars & trains" and changes according to cultures & different times.

I don't "feel like" a woman. I don't "think" I am a woman. I don't "identify as" a woman.

I am a woman (= Adult human female)

RhiWrites · 08/05/2017 21:50

OP, I don't know the answer to your question. I posted something similar on a thread which asked if mumsnet was transphobic. I said I thought it was. I got told I was talking nonsense.

I asked a trans friend if she knew why and she said she thought it had to do with trans people now getting the rights that gay people achieved about 40 years ago. i.e. It's backlash.

FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers · 08/05/2017 21:52

MN is not transphobic.

Some of the posters on here who regularly get that thrown at them are the same people who have been messaging me and supporting me with my child who is currently presenting as transgender and they have been a massive help to us.

It isn't transphobia to disagree with someone and present facts to back up your point of view. I do understand that it hurts though.

I'm sorry that you had an abusive childhood and I am sorry that you are going down this path and that it's so difficult.

You will find a wealth of support here if you ask for it op.

RhiWrites · 08/05/2017 21:53

I do hope you're genuine OP and not being a straw man for the usual bigotry here.

PowderGreen · 08/05/2017 21:55

"I really don't understand it but it makes me sad. Trans people just want to get on with their lives and are at more risk of being harmed or murdered than anyone else."

This is not true factually speaking. There is an article I read recently which gives the stats on murder rates for the transgender population and males and females and trans are the least likely to be murdered. This is why it is so important to understand how the media manipulates the masses into believing absolute fiction.

Does anyone here know the piece I am referring to?

AssassinatedBeauty · 08/05/2017 21:55

RhiWrites can you describe the rights that gay people got about 40 years ago, in the mid 1970s?

Dawnedlightly · 08/05/2017 21:56

Rhi really you hope the OP was abused as a child and forced into transing rather than being a straw man?
Nice.

CharlieSierra · 08/05/2017 21:59

I asked a trans friend if she knew why and she said she thought it had to do with trans people now getting the rights that gay people achieved about 40 years ago

Well your trans friend is mistaken. There is no comparison and trying to conflate the issues is disingenuous; gay people never impacted on women's rights or attempt to redefine the meaning of 'woman'.

Anyway this is pure goady fuckery, so I'm out.