AIBU to tell DH I am not moving out of London?

[canoso77]

I am very upset with DH's attitude and I actually can't believe it. We've been married 12 years and have 3 young sons. For the duration of this I have been a "trailing spouse" because he's been involved in the diplomatic service. We've lived in some restrictive places and it's not always been easy with young children.
We returned to London 18 months ago and by a fluke chance, managed to get the boys into a great school where they can remain until 13. I love being back in London and have made lots of friends via the school. I'm European and feel comfortable in this area. Generally it's a wider range of people than when we were abroad and I'm enjoying that.
DH is now in a different role which will still involve travel but he doesn't need to physically be in an office most days.
Now he has announced that he wants to move somewhere nearer to his boat and where he feels the boys can have more space and we can "chill" as s family more. In other words, Devon or Dorset! I told him that I'm happy where we are now. I don't want to uproot the boys again. I know Devon isn't the middle of nowhere, but it might as well be as I know nobody there. Also, if I was thinking about returning to work in the future, this move is drastically limiting my options. He said he's sure I'll make a go if it down there and I'll be busy anyway with a larger house to run, plus the boys and there will be no time to be bored!
What annoys me most, is that he was making promises to the boys about going sailing or rock climbing every weekend and this kind of thing - making it sound like one long holiday.
The way he has left it now is that it's up to me, "of course", but could I please give it serious consideration? Well I don't need to think about it, but at the same time, I don't want to feel like I'm keeping him here when he'd rather have a different lifestyle elsewhere. Sorry if this is all garbled. AIBU to say I'm not moving for the forseeable future?

Ha! You can say 'darling, I am SO glad you said that it's sticking together that's important, obviously nothing could be LESS like sticking together than me being marooned in a big, remote, rural 'renovation project' , the kids being pushed off to boarding school and you having the life of Reilly in London in the week. That would clearly be DISASTROUS and the OPPOSITE of all your beliefs and values, so phew, at least we blew that out of the water.'

Nb we ARE moving out of London and DH will commute - but it was my idea, the dc will only benefit, and we're moving to my hometown... it's more a sacrifice of DH than anything. I would not be able to put up with your husband trying to manipulate all your lives for his own benefit, especially when HE gets to come back to London every week!

Unless of course you get a great job in London whereupon you can change it to 'what a splendid idea darling, I will retreat weekdays to my london pied a terre while you handle all the school lifts, family life, oh and crack on with the renovation'

I would be the same as you.
However to at least say that you would consider it could you go to Dorset over summer just to see and look at the schools, neighbourhoods etc

'Sometimes what he does is he basically says nothing and just lets me go off at him while he just kind of stares at me and then when I get emotional, he's the one who calms me down and looks like the caring, reasonable person. He has a way of presenting his opinions as facts as well and sometimes I feel like I'm up against a wall. I don't know how conscious of this he is or if it's the way I respond that exacerbates things. He doesn't ever get angry with me which is good in a way, but it's hard to deal with people when they don't react. Plus he is very charming and kind most of the time so I feel like I'm being aggressive and provocative if I challenge him or push him on things.'

I know the type exactly. It is beyond infuriating engaging with someone like this - they are so incredibly manipulative. They make you feel like you're screaming into a vacuum - totally unheard and powerless. It's a horrible way to live.

so write him a letter then, that's the only way to get your message across and make sure he reads it when you are not around either

I agree with this. Or write a script and stick to it.

The thing to bear in mind when talking to people like this is that your words have no impact on them - they just see your mouth moving and wait for you to shut up so they can carry on ignoring you. The reason you never get through is that first you have to establish the idea that you mean what you say and you have a right to be listened to - and sometimes the only way to do that is through desperate measures. With your DH I would state very calmly that you are no longer going to just get pushed around by what he wants and that you will not be moving, no matter how good he thinks it'll be. If he wants to move, so be it, but you won't be going with him.

he says I don't understand boys properly.

jesus OP I hope he has some redeeming qualities because I would go through my husband if he said this kind of sexist claptrap to me. If he says that again to you smile icily and say " you don't seem to understand diplomacy properly"

With regard to the move, write a script. It should be fairly simple

"I have thought carefully and I do not want to move out of London. I intend to stay here"

Keep repeating for the entire conversation. If he says "but it will be better for the boys" say "well I disagree and I have thought carefully etc"

If he says "but i want to do this" say "yes I understand that but I have thought carefully etc"

I'll tell you what OP. If you do move, you will probably settle everyone in, make friends, start a network and he'll turn around and say he wants to live somewhere else - guarantee it.

"Its not in mine or the boys best interest"
"It may have been in yours to board, but it is not on our boys best interest"

Once the boys get to a certain point in education you don't want to start pissing them about moving schools.
Don't trial it - once you've uprooted your stuffed and it loses its "can't move the kids" argument as your actually signing up to potentially do it twice

There is no compromise to be had, its just a no.
He doesn't see you or the kids as separate entities, with different wants or needs, your just an extension of himself.

I'll tell you what OP. If you do move, you will probably settle everyone in, make friends, start a network and he'll turn around and say he wants to live somewhere else - guarantee it.

This!

I agree with Pallisers broken record type of approach.
He has said it is up to you so I would develop a standard set of blocking answers
"I believe it is in the best interests of the family as a whole to remain in London"
"You said it is up to me, I have considered the pros and cons and have decided to remain in London"
"I have considered your points but do not wish to move"
"I understand our boys very well"

Do not get into a debate with him. Just keep stonewalling with these types of answers. He will try to unpick any points you make and undermine them. He has been trained to negotiate so it is not a level playing field.

His arguing style makes no difference. He is not in charge. You don't have to do anything you don't feel would benefit you or the DC.

If he thinks what's best for boys is disruption to education and friendships then boarding school, a subservient, unhappy mother and father making the decisions for the family and spending much of his time working or on his hobbies, I strongly disagree with him!

Yes yes to broken record technique.

You don't have to justify your reasons to him.

I agree with lots of the comments here. He makes it seem like he's doing you all a favour and that you would be the unreasonable one not to give your boys "a better life", whereas in fact he is being very selfish and just manipulating you into getting him a better life as he sees it. He may even belief himself that this is all about the family.

All this bollocks about weekend activities and boarding.....does he realise that a lot of weekly boarding runs until Saturday lunchtime, so by the time you've got home after a hectic week at school, the kids will probably just want to chill in their rooms, not dash off again somewhere. Then it's back to school about 24hrs later.

Meanwhile, you will be so happy cooking, cleaning and keeping the home fires burning.

I say this as someone who lives in the rural west country and hates London and has been a trailing spouse!

It sounds like his own boarding experience has given him a particular idea of what childhood/family life involves, which might be fine for him, but can seem quite fucked up to others. The things he says reveal what a bubble he lives in and it's him who needs to see the bigger picture and recalibrate his views, not you. You've done a whole load of compromising already. It must be scary trying to get your points across with a skilled negotiator who knows exactly how to be persuasive and win a debate, but please stick to your guns. Your reasons to stay are so much more powerful than his reasons to go, which really boil down to him wanting to go sailing.

he presents his opinion as fact? you do the same.

you've got a very strong case for staying where you are. his only makes sense in the context of his frolicking.

Stand your ground OP. You will regret it if you don't. The fact that your boys are happy at school should be enough for the family to stay on London.
I would love to go "home" from where we are at the moment, but our DS is soo happy at school and settled that we are staying put, but when he leaves school, it will be a different story.
Put your children and your needs above his midlife crisis, and stay where you want and need to be . If you sell up in an area, in London, that you love, it might not be easy to recreate that else and moving back to the city may well be too expensive in the future.
Be strong and don't let him dictate what happens, as he clearly has done up until now.

I also want to say I am on your side. I think you DH needs to be more respectful of your wishes. I am also worried he will be off sailing etc while you're home packing the picnic and sorting the kids. Also I would say beware the promise of a fantastic lifestyle. We once lived somewhere where everyone assumes you have a great outdoors lifestyle, but the reality was different. School sports on Saturdays, ferrying around for parties etc, the usual stuff of life, meant that actually we didn't do all the chilled out things one might imagine. Add to that we returned to our native home every summer, meant we didn't do all the 'fun' stuff then either! We did it back home instead! So it was kinda no different to living as we do now in a big city. (OK, some differences but not as much as you might think). I second having holidays or regular weekends there instead. Think carefully about the day to day of raising three boys and exactly what after school and weekends involves. And whether that routine could really accommodate the promises your dh is making.

The less you say, the better. In fact, all you need to say is "no".
Don't get drawn into debating the practicalities with him when you are not interested in moving.
You said that he went to boarding school from a young age. Is he an affectionless psychopath? Perhaps this is why he has trouble empathising.

Don't argue. You can't win with him. You already know that.

Remember you don't need to argue. This is your decision.

You only have to say "I have decided to stay in London." Broken record.

The second you start to justify your decision is the second you make it a negotiation and you lose. His paid work is to get the required outcome with a smile on his face: an iron fist in a velvet glove. Keep your mouth mostly shut. Can you do that?

I'm very thankful for all this support and it helps to feel like I'm not going crazy.
It's one thing moving for work, but this would be moving for his hobbies and the lifestyle he has decided he wants. I've always fitted into his "scheme", but I can't do this now. He is away at the moment so it gives me some breathing space at least. It's good advice about trying to stay calm and the broken record approach. I will try my best. I'm used to dealing with him but I get emotional where the boys are concerned and I don't them to be in a position where they feel as if they can't say no because it would be letting their dad down. He is a lovely dad on many ways, but he grew up mainly in school himself because his father was in the military, so what's normal to me is not to him. He always says he appreciates everything I do, but now I'm wondering if it's just words. I don't know if I want to get back to work or not, but it would be nice for him to engage with me on that kind of subject. He is very supportive of me and he can be so thoughtful as well, but I'm starting to see how I've been living on his personal terms, rather than both of us living by the terms of his career.

No.
Don't budge.

Was he born in the 19th century? - he acts like it.
tell him he can go down there if he wants to, but you are staying put.
he's very selfish.

YANBU because what you personally would like is not some non issue to be swept aside.

On the other hand, jump at the chance of bringing your children up in the countryside closer to nature with a boat available, rather than a city. I agree with the poster who mentioned this being better for family life, with the slight modification that it could conceivably depend on the family. :) Either way, good luck.

Well I get the impression that he is taking you for granted. He's accustomed to your trailing after him and just assumes that you will continue to do so.

That's a harsh thing to write but everything else I tried was even harsher.

On the other hand, jump at the chance of bringing your children up in the countryside closer to nature with a boat available, rather than a city. I agree with the poster who mentioned this being better for family life, with the slight modification that it could conceivably depend on the family.

no don't jump at the chance of bringing children up closer to nature unless that is EXACTLY what you want out of life. I'd hate it and I don't think I am an unreasonable person. It isn't the be-all and end-all of family life to live in the country. and nature doesn't just exist outside of cities.

I live in a big city with loads of job opportunities, chances for my kids to go to university nearby, public transportation so they don't need to drive or be driven everywhere. My kids all sail (and swim and kayak and paddleboard) - at our local boat club on the lake 2 blocks away, where dh also sails and runs the voluntary sail program. We are 2 minutes from trails through greenbelt with every kind of wildlife including deer.

So you don't understand boys

Sounds like he doesn't understand empathy, women or family dynamics.

That should say healthy family dynamics (as in every members needs being met and not just one persons wants)