I want to see my grandchild

[floflo123]

I'm a first time poster here so I don't know if this is the right place or not, but I would like some advice. A year and a half ago, my fourth grandchild, a girl, was born and I still haven't met her. My sons relationship with the mother, a long term girlfriend and fiancé of a year, broke down early in the pregnancy and he told us that she had been cheating on him and that the baby wasn't his. She suggested doing a DNA test and denied all his claims but insisted that he would have to pay for it, though this has never been done and as far as I'm aware, they've not spoken since then. I tried talking to her to tell her that she had to be reasonable in how she dealt with it all because she was extremely angry with my son and that we all had rights, not just her but she told me to leave her alone, among other horrible comments. She has blocked all social media accounts from nearly all members of our family but I have been able to see pictures of the child and she looks very much like my son. I've tried to speak to my son to try and get him to get in contact with her but he refuses to acknowledge the situation at all, but I want to meet my grandchild. My other son and two daughters refuse to speak to their brother because they feel that he has been selfish by not being involved, but I feel that the mother could have done more to ensure that he was involved too. She and I never really had a good relationship, she was always far too opinionated and rather cold towards me so I don't expect this to be an easy ride. I'm just wondering how I could phrase a message to her in the hope that it won't have to go through any legal channels?

I would drop this and back off if I were you. You and your son are clearly not wanted. They don't need you interfering in their lives.

She could be quite rude and brash with the way she put forward her opinions, if I said the slightest thing that she didn't like she would be quite rude towards me on a regular basis especially if we didn't agree on something. As I said we didn't get on but it wasn't for a lack of trying.

Who knows... Maybe she'd say the same.

1. You didn't get along.
2. Your son doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about this child.

I understand that it's difficult. But the child is either not your grandchild at all or your son is the one that pissed away his relationship with his child and therefore also your relationship with your grandchild.

You're either not related to the child or your son is the one that didn't even care enough to do a paternity test.

You say the child looks like your son... let's say that's true... Then be angry at your son.

Yes, if I were you I'd be absolutely gutted. But your anger is directed towards the wrong person.

Yeah If when pregnant someone had told me that they all had rights not just me, well I would have flipped Out. The cheek of it though. Bloody hell.

As your son has not accepted paternity, it leaves you as grandparents out in the cold. This is your son's doing, not hers.

If you want to be involved, you will need the mother to want you to be involved. Threatening legal action, showing you don't like her and saying / implying / thinking that she could have done more will drive her further away and there is nothing you will be able to do about that.

So if you want contact, you need to build bridges, show empathy. Perhaps if you are able to be a help and an asset, the situation could change. To do that, you would need to be a support she can trust. If you have at any point mentioned legal action, this will be near impossible to establish. She would need to know that you won't undermine her. If she knows you disapprove of her, partially blame her for this, then again, you'll have little hope.

You mention that a child should have contact with family, but if the wider family undermine the mother / child bond (for example, if you criticised the mother in front of the child) then it might not be in the child's best interests.

I can imagine you would say you wouldn't do that but does she know that? Really know and believe that? I can't imagine that she would now from what you have written.

Perhaps you could start by getting your son to accept paternity and pay for his child. What does she want - is there any support or help she might need? For her - not as access to her child.

If she doesn't trust and like you, then she won't trust you with her child.

I think this comes under the heading of reaping what you sow.

Op you never built a relationship with the woman who was supposed to be your daughter in law and you've raised a son who is capable of walking away from his child. The result is you lose out on a grandchild.

If I were the ex I would tell you not to contact me or my child ever again.

The only way you are going to have a relationship with this child is by building a relationship with the child's mother. To do this, you will need to apologise and grovel a lot. Never ever criticise her again or tell her what she's doing wrong or should do.

You could offer help, financial and practical, though don't expect her to trust you to babysit until you have proven that she can trust you to put the needs of her and her child before those of you and your son.

You have handled this very badly and pushed her away. If you had been more supportive and empathetic and less critical and demanding at the beginning, you may not be where you are now.

It's possible that she is as difficult as you say but if you genuinely want a relationship with this child, you need to swallow some humble pie and completely change your attitude and behaviour.

Where do you see obvious contempt lalalalyra? That's rather a stromg term.

Don't you dare even consider legal channels. From the sounds of it, he's not paying maintenance so she's doing and paying for everything. To try and bring her to court would be the most despicable and selfish thing as it would cause huge stress and financial hardship which will make her rightly hate you. And you'll lose anyway.

Your son's an arsehole, both she and the child are better off without him. You have as many rights as you have legal responsibilities - NONE!!! You had your chance parenting your own kids, leave this woman alone to raise hers. She doesn't need or want your interference.

She's the mother, she gets to decide who is in the child's life and who isn't. Leave her alone.

Your son is an asshole. If you didn't get on with her when they were together then how on earth do you expect it to happen now? If I were her I wouldn't let any of you near my child after how she's been treated, leave her alone. You are not entitled to anything here.

It's lovely that you want to be involved but unfortunately I don't think it will happen as things stand now. You seem to be making excuses for your sons appalling behaviour and blaming his ex. The fact your other children do not agree surely indicates, even to you, that your son is at fault. He should certainly have agreed to a DNA test and if the child is his (which sounds pretty likely tbh) he should be paying his share and spending time with her. To ignore your own flesh and blood is quite frankly disgraceful and I think your time would be better spent encouraging your son to acknowledge his child than harassing his ex. Of course your son is a grown man and you can't be held responsible for his behaviour, but your relationship with this child is dependent upon him doing the right thing so I would be putting the onus on him to rectify this situation.
I'm not trying to be deliberately critical, but I do feel your tone in the conversation with your son's ex was a little entitled. Telling her 'she had to be reasonable' and 'we all had rights not just her' was bound to inflame an already volatile situation and to be brutally honest, I'm not surprised she told you to leave her alone and worse. Offering support and kindness would have been far better than making demands. Something to think about... have you or any of your family offered any form of help to this woman, or to the grandchild that you are so desperate to see, financially or otherwise?

Mmm as a mum to 4 and a grand mum to lots!

You should have brought your son up better op.

You can approach it without causing further issues by taking the advice given here, apologise for being critical of her and ask if there's anything you can do to help and support her and your grandchild.

Do not bleat about rights or legal channels, just make it clear that you are there for them and don't put pressure on her. Don't expect instant results and don't complain if she doesn't respond in the way you hope right away.

Just stop judging the way she dealt with an awful situation that she didn't ask to be put in, your son did that, regardless of whether you clicked with her or not she doesn't deserve to be treated the way she has been. Own that.

there is a thing called grandparents rights but costs around £20,000 just to get the ball rolling, i know this as my partners 'mum' claimed she was going for them- before anyone thinks im wrong for stopping her seeing my child its because the first time she ever got to watch her she was around 2 years old (i refused before that as she had a dog who was always growling at everyone and i didnt trust it) anyway she called me an hour later while i was getting my hair dyed saying i had to go home then i later realised my daughter had a handprint on her backside, then we found out she was going to south africa to her niece's wedding and when we knew she left we went and got the rest of my partners belongings we used a key and she had the cheek to call the police saying my partner broke in, she didnt have my partners new number but gave the police mine, they called me i said no we didnt break in to her house but yes we did go in using a key she gave us! turned out his brother admitted we didnt steal anything just my partners stuff. his brother has recently put a post on social media slating me saying i grabbed a child at school and that i reported the ambulance service etc for blocking my drive all the time but i was told by a solicitor not to worry about it due to many years ago his mum attacked me and i pressed charges so she also has a criminal record. if you are determined then it will be a lengthy process and very expensive, have you tried sending her a letter? write one saying hi i wanted to send a letter to see how you are getting on, i know we havent had the best relationship in the past but i was hoping we could change things? i would like to invite you to lunch and maybe meet my grandchild if possible, if not i understand but im here if you need me then include your phone number. that way you have tried. also tell your son its about time he starts providing for his child as until he proves this child is not his then he is responsible. i hope his ex is getting child maintenance as she has still brought her up from day one. my daughter will never know her dads side of the family and they can fight me til the very end, one of his brothers said that is nothing to do with me when i was pregnant never seen her and she is 8, his gran said when my daughter was months old she wants nothing to do with her so i know im better off without them. i split with my partner for a while had zero money and begged his mum to get him to buy milk, nappies etc and just recently found out she never told him he knew nothing, i only had my amazing sister and brother in law to thank who helped me through the worst time i managed just fine without his family - i had zero money no benefits, no work or milk tokens for 6 months i didnt eat and the child benefit i had to put in gas and electric. its been 6 years since we spoke and me and my partner get on great now :)

I suspect her being opinionated means she told the OP to wind her fucking neck in.

I agree with others that there appears to be no benefit at all to the child in this, the OP is simply banging on about herself! She wants to see the child, she wants to have the same relationship with her as with the others, she expects the mother to facilitate this....where is childs interests?! She isnt a fucking doll that you can play with.

And I also agree that you will get absolutely nowhere with legals so dont waste your time and money. Face the fact that you raised a deadbeat and keep your nose out of this poor womans life. Its nothing to do with you so stay out of it.

'Grandparents' rights'? Errr no... they can make a Children Act application but don't automatically get rights

@pentapus How about where the OP told her that she "had to be reasonable" and that "they all had rights" when the woman was trying to deal with her fiance dumping her and claiming her unborn child wasn't his? or when the OP describes her as "far too opinionated" for a start?

The OP's son called his fiance a cheat, disowned their unborn child and the OP told the poor woman to be reasonable. She disagreed with her to the point she was blocked on social media and her OP mentions legal channels yet doesn't mention anything positive about the woman at all.

I'm in a similar situation to your sons ex. I'm lucky in the sense that I get on amazing well with my ex partners mum so he goes to see her for holidays, he's stayed over for Christmas etc

BUT if she had sided with her son it would have seriously damaged my opinion of her. As it was at the time, she took a step back, she didn't get involved, she gave me space but stayed in touch. Do you send Christmas cards? Birthday card? Easter card? On Mothers day did you acknowledge all that she does for your grandchild with a card/flowers or even a text message?

I have gone above and beyond to help my child have a relationship with his paternal side despite him having no contact, but it's very much a two way street.

My advice, eat some humble pie. Apologise, acknowledge that you both haven't got on very well in the past but would like to start over if possible. Allow her to feel in control of the situation. Perhaps she feels if you had access that would strengthen your position with any court action you have threatened to take? She needs support and reassurance that you respect her as mother of your grandchild.

What you think of her doesn't matter, your grandchild does. Bite your tongue. If she bitches about your son don't automatically jump to his defense or say "Well actually he says it wasn't quite like that ... ".

Personally I find it sad when children miss out on their parternal side of the family when the father decides to not keep contact. It's the child that usually ends up missing out in the long run.

OP, why don't you work out how much child support your son should be paying and then offer it, no strings attached, to the mother of your grandchild? Or, and this is also an option, you could find a time machine and raise your dickwad of a son properly.

And my understanding of "grandparents rights" is that they can go to court for access to facilitate a relationship that already exists so there is no chance with this.

OP, maybe you could offer to pay child maintenance on behalf of your deadbeat son.

Ask her if you could please be allowed to help. She'll be suspicious of what you expect in return so say there are no conditions on the money but you'd love it if someday she'd let you know your grandchild.

I think once the whole grandparent interest to the child would be beneficial. However you will need to demonstrate support to the child and mother. Starting off with a sincere apology from yourself and your son. The cheating is neither here nor there tbh. Your son has obligations to the child which has not been fulfilled.

I'd go a long way with a letter of apology and support and financial assistance of some kind with no expectations but other than the welfare of the child. And not excusing your son in any way for his fatherly obligations.

Only then and then, might there be a window of opportunity for further engagement.

You should have brought your son up better op - That's not fair. Some people are just arseholes, it's not always down to parenting.

How will you explain to the child in the next few years that you are her granny but her dad doesn't want anything to do with her?
This is a very important point to think about! It could get extremely difficult as the child gets a bit older, and there's no answer you could give to this question, that isn't hurtful to the child.
If you really wanted to help support your granddaughter, you should pressure your son to do the right thing- that is, do the dna test, and provide regular maintenance for his daughter. Your son has caused this situation by his immature and selfish behaviour, and you shouldn't blame the mother.
Meanwhile, the most useful thing you could do, if you have any money yourself, is to set up a regular standing order to the mother to help financially support your grand daughter. Write to her and tell her you'd love to see your Gd sometime in the future if she feels it's the right thing for the child. Be prepared to wait ten years or longer.

Some people are just arseholes, it's not always down to parenting.

True. But a decent parent would be disgusted with their son for what he has done, not make excuses for him. They would have gone over and above to build bridges not tell the ex that they have rights and she needs to be reasonable (or in other words, threaten her). Sounds like the shit didnt fall far from the arsehole.

You have no relationship with this child. You have absolutely no fucking chance of ever getting court sanctioned access. NO CHANCE. You don't have any rights at all in this situation.

You need to revise your disgusting entitled attitude and seriously grovel on your knees to the mother and see if she will forgive you and change her mind.