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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be unaware I needed my husband's permission to travel with kids?

219 replies

SidekickSally · 01/05/2017 19:49

I've just come back from a weekend in Amsterdam with my 2 DDs, both under 16. We wanted to see some museums and my DH isn't keen so we went with my mum instead. At Amsterdam airport I was asked alot of questions by passport control and the guy said I needed written permission from DH to take my kids away without him. He was asking "how do I know your husband has given you permission to take the children without him". He accepted my return tickets as proof in the end but said next time get written proof.

I can see why he was asking and that this could be an issue but it never occured to me. What do lone parents do? What kind of permission is accepted? Surely a letter could be faked too. Seems a bit of over kill, or is it? Just be interested to hear from others about whether this is usual or unusual.

OP posts:
Orlantina · 03/05/2017 18:59

granny

What system do you think should be in place to prevent it?
What system is fool-proof and workable?

scaryteacher · 03/05/2017 18:59

etonmessi Given how easy it is to hop from Amsterdam to Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, France etc, why try to fly if abducting a child. Far easier to drive to a less stringent airport, or use a ferry, or a train.

triedandrusted · 03/05/2017 19:00

I was stopped on the way back into the UK when dd was small and I'd not changed my passport into my married name. Passport police's advice was to carry her birth certificate around with me. In the end, when it came time to renew my passport, I decided it would be easier just to use the same surname as her.

But, what's to stop someone typing up a letter and scribbling a 'signature' from the absent parent? What about those children who only have one parent - maybe one parent has died for example? Do we need to carry death certificates for absent parents?

I totally understand the need to carry out checks, but at the moment, I haven't got any ideas of how to improve the current nonsense, sadly.

lostincumbria · 03/05/2017 19:01

Hi nocampinghere - you're right, there's no law saying both parents have to take the children on holiday together. Nobody had claimed that.

The government say both parents must give their permission, however:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/children-travelling-to-the-uk

Unless you can direct me to evidence that this is wrong/out of date?

nocampinghere · 03/05/2017 19:09

i haven't read that leaflet, i have never seen that leaflet.

why am i allowed to book flights requiring names, passport numbers etc.. as pre flight information without my dh's consent?

it's just too woolly.
why do passport control let me through when i get arsey if i am not adhering to the rules? because there are no bloody rules.

nocampinghere · 03/05/2017 19:12

ok i read it.
it says "if you are not the child's parent" "or seem not to be the child's parent" then bring ID/documents.

this isn't about travelling WITHOUT one parent. It doesn't talk about a mum travelling with her kids (i could be abducting them!)

lostincumbria · 03/05/2017 19:15

Those guidelines are the result of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009.

It's not just officers throwing their weight around for the sake of it. It's the law, rather than tossers wanting to make the queues longer.

I'm sure they, your children and the queue building behind appreciate you getting arsey rather than answering a few simple questions and being on your way.

GlitterGlue · 03/05/2017 19:17

What is the actual law? What is the legislation that covers this?

lostincumbria · 03/05/2017 19:17

The first words are "You must get the permission of everyone with parental responsibility for a child or from a court before taking the child abroad."

So you can expect to be asked if you have that permission.

lostincumbria · 03/05/2017 19:19

Hi Glitter, we must have crossed. The Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 tells Border Patrol it must act in the interests of children. The guidelines on gov.uk explain how they do that.

nocampinghere · 03/05/2017 19:19

there are mixed issues going on here.

OP has described an issue where she travelled without her dh and was told she needed evidence of his permission.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE. I have had this as well. It is bollocks.

many of the other issues surround different surnames etc where they need to check who the person with the kids is. Advice is to bring evidence that you are indeed their parent. That is all on the system from the passport information but is more understandable.

My point is the rule should be black and white, crystal clear. Not just ask for documentation because the passport control person feels like it that day.

nocampinghere · 03/05/2017 19:22

The first words are "You must get the permission of everyone with parental responsibility for a child or from a court before taking the child abroad."

WHERE does it say that? not in the document you linked to as far as i can tell

Rosa · 03/05/2017 19:23

In Italy when you get a passport or an ID card both parents have to be present or sign to say who can take the minor out of the country . When I travel with them ( without DH) it comes up on the computer that I am entitled to take them out. When Grandparents / the school take them you have to go to the autorities and authorise it. Its actually a good system IMO.

nocampinghere · 03/05/2017 19:24

I'm sure they, your children and the queue building behind appreciate you getting arsey rather than answering a few simple questions and being on your way.

i had answered their questions, politely.
so had my 5 year old daughter, terrified. very unpleasant manner "WHO IS THAT?" pointing at me aggressively.

then i got a bollocking for not having documentation. which i had not idea i needed. so they can fuck off and just let me in quite frankly.

MrsCobain · 03/05/2017 19:25

When I travelled with ds from States to UK alone I brought birth and marriage certificates and a notarised letter and was asked for it both times I've done the trip alone once I got to the UK.

Ds had US passport and different surname to mine (I have UK). I think they were more concerned about trafficking in my case than the other parent agreeing.

MrsCobain · 03/05/2017 19:27

Didn't help that one time when they asked ds "is this your mummy?" the little fucker said "no"! Twice! ConfusedAngry

Orlantina · 03/05/2017 19:41

This reminds me of Outnumbered.

GlitterGlue · 03/05/2017 20:16

Hi Glitter, we must have crossed. The Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 tells Border Patrol it must act in the interests of children. The guidelines on gov.uk explain how they do that.

I don't think it does cover this? It seems to relate more to human trafficking and immigration, not Mrs Bloggs taking little Jemima to Spain.

nocampinghere · 03/05/2017 20:43

Rosa the Italian system seems perfectly sensible, reasonable, effective and fit for purpose.

Here they just make it up if they feel like it on the day Angry

SemiNormal · 03/05/2017 20:59

I haven't applied for my sons passport yet but someone said I'd need his dads birth certificate so I rang te passport advice line and said I couldn't provide this documentation as we have no idea where he is. Bloke said that's fine just include a cover letter stating this, anyone know if the passport would still be approved? as ex partners details wouldn't come up when they scan his passport I wonder if they would then not bother to question me for a letter..... ?

Kissesgingers · 03/05/2017 21:46

What do you bring them to prove you had your child via sperm donor as a single woman? The contract from the donor centre?

Booboostwo · 03/05/2017 22:09

Tinsel how would passport control know who a phone number is registered to and why assume that the number you give has to be registered to the other parent in the first place or be picked up by the other parent?

granny I think if you stoop to child abduction and/or trafficking you are not going to draw the line at forgery. I am not sure who would be knocking or whose door or under what laws you can detain people at the airport while one knocks on various doors, or how any of this would be in any way possible.

TinselTwins · 03/05/2017 22:45

Tinsel how would passport control know who a phone number is registered to and why assume that the number you give has to be registered to the other parent in the first place or be picked up by the other parent?

its a pretty simple search
If it's not registered to the person that could warrent a further search or questions.

CotswoldStrife · 04/05/2017 09:48

kissesgingers if the child's birth certificate only has the mother on it, I presume that would be a good indication that there may not be anyone else with parental responsibility

I am amazed that this topic constantly comes up (needing a letter travelling with children) as it's been standard practice for years. But a large number of people (including a travel agent on another forum!) don't know about this.

grannytomine · 04/05/2017 09:50

Orlantina, I think the least that should be done is if child isn't travelling with both parents then a notarized letter should be used to prove either the other parent consents to the trip or no one else has PR.

Booboostwo, as I understand it a forged passport costs big money and is treated very seriously.

If doors have to be knocked on so be it, if you miss your flight well that is your own responsibility as you should be carrying the correct paperwork. If you turn up with no passport or an out of date passport do you expect to travel because it is going to hold up the queue. We are talking about lives being destroyed.