To think breastfeeding has made no difference to my dd and is massively overrated in terms of benefits?

[Placeanditspatrons]

I've nearly driven myself to a breakdown feeding my dd. She is 16 months now and I'm still feeding. She has been ill more times and worse than my formula fed from four months son. She does not recover any faster and she catches anything I get and gets it worse, despite supppsedly the antibodies passing to her and either preventing or reducing the severity of the illness.

I know it's anecdotal and the studies say overall bf babies are healthier but how much healthier? I mean I we talking one less cold? One less ear injection? Statistically? Many of my friends have said similar. Again anecdotal but I can't help wondering - after the colostrum which is more important I guess - does it really make any noticeable difference?

"People should be in a position to make an informed decision bert obviously and guess what, they are. Once however they've made that decision that should be accepted."

Of course it should be accepted. But it is obvious from reading the breast feeding threads on here that many women aren't making informed choices. That is not their fault. They are misled or misinformed. There was a thread I saw, for example, where a woman had very sadly decided that she had to ff (please note the had -it was not her preferred choice) because she had no milk-the baby was a day old.....

If people aren't feeling supported, maybe they are just not accesing the support available. There is a huge amount of support available, in person and over the phone 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I'm not sure what more support could look like without it actually being stalking or someone moving in with new mums to help full time with breastfeeding.

If may be that a lot of women don't access the support available, or don't look to see if there is support, but that's hardly the fault of the support. If can't be forced down people's throats.

I'm the same way that some women say they can't breastfeed when it would be more accurate to say they don't want to, maybe some women that stop because they want to, blame lack of support, whether consciously or otherwise.

Gray - in your area there may be. There has only been BF support in my area. For 3 years out of the last 15 as it has to be commissioned by the LA and there is no money.

And TBH the quality of the support depends hugely on how much funding there is and how much and what training the supporters get wherever you are.

Then there is a problem with NHS waiting lists and availability for their services. 6 months waiting list for TT division only one centre across several LAs.

Reasons why women may not access support:

• they do not know it exists
• they are not confident enough to access it (many women put off phoning because they are afraid they might cry, for instance, or they are just a bit shy to turn up to a group)
• they have been told by someone in authority they cannot (witness the threads on here when someone has been told such and such medication cannot be used when bf)
• they have been told their milk looks too thin or some rubbish like that
• their family think they are crazy for bothering
• they are still in hospital and feel the support they have there is all there is

And so on and on. Women have to be proactive to find and access good knowledgable support. Often when you are struggling you feel at your very least proactive.

Support groups of all kinds not just bf struggle to exist. I live in a big metropolitan area. If I wanted a bf group I'd need to get two buses or have a car to get to my nearest group on the other side of the city. And wait until next Wednesday. There used to be one about 30 mins walk away. It closed - lost its funding. That was only weekly too.

Look not everyone lives in London or wealthy areas. My LA has some of the most deprived wards in the country. The LA has always been poor and has already suffered 25 years of cuts and closures to maternity services. There actually just wasn't any support at all to access at the time I had any of my babies. We briefly had a breastfeeding peer support service before that was cut under these Tory cuts. We are about to lose possibly both of the nearest mat services in neighbourhood LAs (both already 1 hour by car from here). There is even a shortage of HV and midwives so they rely heavily on nursery nurses. The maternity services are not even in the LA now because of hospital and midwife led centre closures.

And two thirds of our children's centres have gone.

Grayeelephant- who funds the 24/7 support? It sounds amazing. Nothing like that where I live.

Even when we had BF support service they only had the funds to do limited home visits and provide 2 hours every weekday of hospital cover.

Well said Offred. Even in London (I speak from experience of close family with babies who live there) it is patchy, of varying quality, and the midwifery service is dire. I have visited in hospital and heard some dreadful rubbish being told to mothers ( 'hmmm....well we'll see tomorrow if we can let you continue to bf' - 'let you?' Wtf? ).

Just checked. The nearest one to me is 7 miles away (bus, train and walk if you don't drive) and is 1-3 on Wednesdays.

I am surprised you are talking about LAs, I would have thought this fell under midwives and HV responsibilities which is the NHS. I am in Scotland though and we don't have sure start centres. However, from what see the centres are a bit of a mixed blessing. Some of it sounds great but friends say that it stops other provision being set up so it can be the centre or nothing and this becomes even more of a problem when they close. The services centres provide are mostly still provided here but from a much more diverse range of sources and locations; NHS, LA, various charities (more in deprived areas), private groups (less in deprived areas), committee run community groups etc.

LAs have public health remit and have had funding (in dim and distant past now) for bf groups and for training peer supporters and paying NHS hcps. I have been involved in many. They don't last long as they get funding for a limited time only and typically this stops. Community health is funded and commissioned by CCGs. I don't know if any bf groups funded by a CCG - but there may be some.

LAs do the commissioning for this kind of service which is different to the NHS responsibility which covers two counties.

So our HV and midwives are across two counties and local services are commissioned by the LA (two CCGs).

Yes, the set up is different in Scotland (though that doesn't mean better).

Online support can never really be excellent though. It can be good emotional support but even then can be full of misinformation. As with everything online, including here.

I thought you cared about maternal mental health, itsmine. Maybe I've got that wrong.

Midwifery home visits slashed to the bone? Midwives replaced by MCAs? PND increased risk when a mother wants to bf and then stops before she wanted to? Ppl blaming themselves for bf not going well? Mothers who want to bf being unable to get even basic help with a comfortable feed?

Perhaps we should be community minded and just tell all mothers to ff from the start as there is literally no money to help ensure a good bf experience, so don't bother.

You actually think it is a waste of public money to support bf, don't you?

And if anything the idea that BF can be supported online when someone is encountering problems just reinforces this myth that if you are experiencing problems it is because you are doing it wrong. Sometimes there are minor things which some practical tips can resolve yes, but sometimes there are issues which can only be resolved by physical examination.

Including an assessment that concludes 'OMG this is dire the baby really needs top up with formula'.

BertrandRussel, I think the 24 hour phone support is run by volunteers.
I live in a small city, not London, and its neither super wealthy or very deprived. Its got a pretty white middle class attitude towards itself though, which might be part of the reason its very, very pro breastfeeding, though TBF, I haven't looked how it compares with elsewhere. Most of the physical support groups are funded by the council.

What I do know is that:

• Three groups on a Monday (1 mile walk) or an alternative (2.2 miles, direct bus from house). The third is local but I can't be bothered to look it up.
• Wednesdays (1.7 miles, direct bus from house) or another two locally (again have run out of can be arsed to look up location)
• Thursdays (3.4 miles, direct bus from house)

I know there are ones (from hearing on the local grapevine) on Tuesdays and Fridays as well, so every weekday, but above are the main ones, which are 7 physical support groups, all within either an easy walk or a bus trip.

Between that, and 24 hour phone support, how on earth people can say they are unsupported is beyond me.

Perhaps now you can see how it might make people who use bottles feel somewhat excluded and unsupported in comparison. All I did was ask for some basic guidance on making up bottles, and i was told no!