To think breastfeeding has made no difference to my dd and is massively overrated in terms of benefits?

[Placeanditspatrons]

I've nearly driven myself to a breakdown feeding my dd. She is 16 months now and I'm still feeding. She has been ill more times and worse than my formula fed from four months son. She does not recover any faster and she catches anything I get and gets it worse, despite supppsedly the antibodies passing to her and either preventing or reducing the severity of the illness.

I know it's anecdotal and the studies say overall bf babies are healthier but how much healthier? I mean I we talking one less cold? One less ear injection? Statistically? Many of my friends have said similar. Again anecdotal but I can't help wondering - after the colostrum which is more important I guess - does it really make any noticeable difference?

So- and I realise that I need to tread very carefully here- it seems to be an accepted fact in this country that a significant minority's of women/babies can't breastfeed. Not "don't want to" or "didn't get enough support" or "found it too overwhelming and decided to stop" but actually can't. What is so different about Scandinavian women and babies.

Posted by Bert, so unless you have been hacked that is rather damning, unless it is a 'misunderstood via text' moment.

Wobbly as I said before I'm not thick - I'm one of the spectrum who did not produce anywhere near enough that we don't know what the percentage of is. Y'know the ones who didn't have enough support or try hard enough...

Well yes she does. I completely agree, but you also have a responsibility to be reasonable TBF.

Yeah but that's the point isn't it? When it all goes wrong and babies end up in hospital you aren't at your most reasonable.

I really think you are totally misinterpreting bert's posts.

They wee 27.5 weeks. So in hospital alot and expressed for/topped up. I thought that would be all the only way they were fed until they learned how to latch from big sis! Dd1 was harder really. Hated waiting once dtds needed first & bf more & much longer. ALL still stick their hands down my top to 'cuddle'.

I work really hard not to post this much identifying information on here tho so will need to go name change again soon :"(

So how is that scandianavian thing with the snide comments about 'didn't want to' misinterpreting?

There is good and bad BF support. It depends on the person providing support. Some are more evangelical than others. There are women who, for many biological and social reasons, find it impossible (in their individual circumstances) to BF.

My main beef with al lof the arguments about BFing or not is that they play on the minds of vulnerable new mothers, many of whom were led to believe that they would BF naturally and easily. There is a percentage of women for whom this is not the case. It can be a hammer blow at a time when they are feeling fragile. My opinion is that the language surrounding infant feeding needs to change. Just as, in irresponsible and ideologically driven hands, the insistence on vaginal birth over C-section led to higher infant mortality rates in Shropshire, so the insistence on BF at any cost by some BF consultants, midwives and support groups leads to the mental damage of mothers and physical damage to babies. BF should be supported and encouraged but we need to disperse the pressure and change the language of failure.
I'm not going to go into the lack of peer reviewed evidence for BF on a personal level. I've had that argument before.

"You have implied that some of the 'can't' bf people are actually 'dont want to'."
Nope. I have said openly and repeatedly that I think some of the "can't" are actually women who could if they were properly informed and supported. And that I think women should make feeding decisions from a position of knowledge and strength.

You said you were one of the 1%. 1% of mums who can't bf are those who can literally never produce milk- if you partly bf then that's not you.

No need to be so agressive.

Bert wasn't being snide about women who don't want to. She has said earlier IIRC that she's not referring to such women when she talks about more breastfeeding support being needed.

I happen to agree with her; I think a lot of women are lead to believe they can't breastfeed because they were given inadequate support. I would have been one of them had I not done my research beforehand. My cousin for eg stopped at 6 weeks, saying she was unable to continue as her DS was fussy with feeding and she couldn't get much milk out when expressing, so therefore it was clear she wasn't producing milk. Had she had proper support at that time, she would have been told that was pretty typical 6 week old behaviour given he was still gaining weight and weeing and pooing.

I don't really give a fig if you choose not to breastfeed, but I get upset when women who want to breastfeed are told they can't when they actually could. Obviously a small percentage of these women won't actually be able to, but many will.

But it isn't 'can't'. It isn't a significant minority who actually can't.

The problem is with the messages you got that you aren't a good mother based on a very small and difficult period in your DCs lives.

Whether you are getting told you are a bad mother for FF, extended BF, WOH, SAH etc etc, those messages are so prevalent in the U.K. that EVERYONE no matter their choices is made to feel judged and found lacking IME. It just shouldn't happen.

It has been said throughout the thread that we don't know what the percentage is of women who don't produce enough/any milk. Or are you claiming that the 15% banded around produce none? That is clearly not the case, the 1% was the suggested minimum in relation to this which is why I was quoting it, fine call 15% those who don't produce enough. Why does it matter? If you have evidence that it is 1% that produce none at all, fine I stand corrected. Why is disagreeing with the position on the thread 'aggression'? It is AIBU after all.

But it isn't 'can't'. It isn't a significant minority who actually can't.

It is a significant minority.

But she wasn't giving your support in hospital, Bert was posting on a BF thread in AIBU when she said that!

So why band herself as supportive and helpful then? Why is she being compared to tiktok?

That study set a weight gain target which did not indicate anything that tells you whether a baby is getting enough milk or not though. Tiktok posted about it earlier 15% of the babies did not gain enough weight to hit the target, that's all that study said. It wasn't a target for healthy EBF. It didn't indicate anything about insufficient milk supply and so many issues to do with BF can make it not work, problems with milk transfer can be with mother or baby and for loads of babies so it will definitely be significantly less than the 15% in that study who didn't gain that target in weight.

Because you personally attacked her and misinterpreted a load of things she said, took things v v personally when they were general comments...

"So why band herself as supportive and helpful then? "

Please could you show me where I haven't been?

Agree with what hom just said.

But would add part of the problem imo is that many know nothing about the reality of bf prior to trying it themselves. Some times bf works easily ofcourse, and there are bf babies who sleep through at 6 weeks and gain weight on 6 feeds in 24 hrs. For most that isnt the case. Bf babies fees (generaly) feed much more often, cling to mum more, bf itself is nothing like many imagine-my first had undiagnosed ptt(mild compared to many) and breast refusal-I could not get her to latch unless swaddled rocked to sleep and then tricked into latching while asleep. All bfs were done this way, plus alot of exoressing topping up and formula too. Mastitis twice, bloody nipples, tt cut followed by exercises for this and cranial osteopathy still left most of her bfs coming with breast refusal. All feeding was done asleep, all sleeping was done on me. Add reflux/cmpi issues & d-mer & pdd for me and it wasn't fun. Ptt & cmpi could have been figured out earlier with the correct 'support' but they were all 'sorted' by 4 mths and still for along time the only way to bf was asleep. That was a good 20 hrs of my day with a child attached to my body. I know alot of mums who bf & encountered more through starting (but sadly never finishing) bf peer support training. It doesn't seem that uncommon that most have babies who need to cosleep &sling lots to manage to bf, lots don't sleep through first much longer, lots have some significant form of bf problem to start (although maybe not the whole bundle I got). Many mums are unprepared for this. I was 'prepared' in terms of knowing many mums who had bf, & in terms of reading everything possible on the science behind it & problems that occur & still I was emotionally in no way prepared for how it actually feels to try & latch and infant that rejects you body. Even when with my twins who had no tt we still fought breast refusal as it's a v hard skill for babies to learn for the first time. Latching on and off, pulling, squirming, feeding allways being unpredictable is a really really tough going experience and the bloody formula adverts with mum lovingly peacefully bf on the rocker are bs for the vast majority.

Mums often want to bf, until they hit the reality & realise it won't work for their wellbeing (which is fine, and wise) or bc it doesn't fit with their circumstances. If my twins had been the extreeme of Dd1 I cdn't have bf them & cared for Dd1. If mums knew the reality, from seeing many other mums do it first hand (as is standard in countries where bf rates are significantly higher) then they may just make informed choices not to. Or informed choice just to do the first few weeks and then be happy with stopping rather than this concept that they 'failed' or 'couldn't'.

There's also a lot of misinformation about what bf not being allowed with Meds or needing to wean the have a drink etc

"So how is that scandianavian thing with the snide comments about 'didn't want to' misinterpreting?"
What's snide about saying that some women don't want to breastfeed?

Do you ever get the feeling Bert that your trying to flog a dead horse?

I agree completely I just meant that ones opinion can be stated several times and not change any minds.

I just find it a bit odd that "all women should be in a position to make a completely informed decision about feeding their baby -no woman who wants to breastfeed should ever end up thinking she can't because she is misinformed or not given enough help" is proving to be a controversial position.

The decision to bf is the easy bit. Carrying it through with no support when things get tough is the hard(impossible) but. Stop blaming mothers (as the NHS can do) and start blaming the lack of support.

Who's blaming mothers?