To think breastfeeding has made no difference to my dd and is massively overrated in terms of benefits?

[Placeanditspatrons]

I've nearly driven myself to a breakdown feeding my dd. She is 16 months now and I'm still feeding. She has been ill more times and worse than my formula fed from four months son. She does not recover any faster and she catches anything I get and gets it worse, despite supppsedly the antibodies passing to her and either preventing or reducing the severity of the illness.

I know it's anecdotal and the studies say overall bf babies are healthier but how much healthier? I mean I we talking one less cold? One less ear injection? Statistically? Many of my friends have said similar. Again anecdotal but I can't help wondering - after the colostrum which is more important I guess - does it really make any noticeable difference?

"So are you saying that you admit that some women just can't do it?"

I don't have to admit anything. I have never said all women can do it. You have completely misrepresented me and called me unpleasant. So yes, I think you owe me an apology.

No Bertrand, I don't agree with you on this. Why won't you just say that breastfeeding isn't possible for everyone?

People wondering why you had such a bad time is not the same as people telling you you are a failure as a mother BTW. Neither is help with latch.

EVERYONE needs help with the latch because newborn babies are very commonly crap at latching and poor latch is something which can be easy and quick to fix and which can massively affect milk transfer.

If you don't want to talk about it or think about it or you do know why your babies ended up dehydrated and just don't want to say you don't need to. You don't have to justify yourself or any aspect of your parenting to anyone else, just try not to jump at someone for saying BF support could be better as though it is something personally aimed at you - it wasn't and I completely agree that it should be infant feeding support NOT BF support.

"But I fundamentally disagree with her position"

What, my position that women should be able to make properly free choices about how they feed their babies and not be forced into decisions without all the information they need? Blimey.

"Why won't you just say that breastfeeding isn't possible for everyone?"
I have. Repeatedly.

The latch was fine though so it isn't really relevant.

I don't think it's aimed at me personally at all. But I know how I would have felt at the time reading this, I think that one major aspect of support is actually 'sensitivity' and 'empathy'

A million times this; The 1% thing is another thing that's misunderstood, it means there are less than 1%of mums who will never be able to produce any breast milk ever with any child they try to bf. So mums who have had double mastectomy or have rare genetic disorders.

Mums who manage some bf with one kid, maybe not exclusively maybe not for long are not part of the less than 1% stat. It doesn't mean 99%+ can all fully exclusively bf every child. It does mean most if they got the correct information at the correct time and have circumstances that allow will be able to give their child some breast milk atleast.

What, my position that women should be able to make properly free choices about how they feed their babies and not be forced into decisions without all the information they need? Blimey.

Er no, in relation to it all being about 'breastfeeding' rather than 'infant feeding' and finding the best way.

I agree with you, breast is best usually.

And thank you for admitting that some women can't do it. Like it or not that wasn't clear in previous posts of yours to me.

The most helpful advice I was ever given by the way was by an older midwife telling me that I was right to put DD2 on formula. It helped me to find peace with the whole thing. But she'd probably have been struck off if her superiors had found out...

Some of this thread is vile and largely unchallenged, the stuff about 'it must be fine or the human race would have died out'

When ppl talk about support for BF, of course they mean support when it's not effective, when it's difficult, when it's painful and when it's not possible....they mean support to fix it (when the mother wants it fixed), support to do some BF alongside FF (if this is what the mother wants). 'Support' can mean love and listening and warmth - and it should also mean technical knowledge and skill.

If a mother does not have this and she does not BF, when she wanted to, then no way is it her fault! How could it be?

I have not seen anything from bertrand indicating she thinks all women can breastfeed if only they have support to do it. Anyone who knows about feeding knows this is not true. There will always be women and babies who wanted to BF and then did not, even with a ton of support. This is no one's 'fault' either. Blame and judgment have no part to play in any of this.

Of course a baby who is unable to have breastmilk should be having formula, and the decision of a mother to do this is right. No midwife who said this would be 'struck off' by her superiors. It's common sense.

Increased - while support involves those things and those things help with getting to the root of the problem and implimemtong the best solution that isn't what breastfeeding 'suppirt' means at all. It's not the best term perhaps but it's more a case of making up for the lack of knowledge that hcp have about the act of bf and how to facilitate baby and mum learning that new skill. Like I said it's more like going to see a physio who is figuring out what's injured & what exercises to do to help it. Yes it helps if that person has empathy and compassion but really what fixes things is the physio having knowledge, asking the right questions, being able to extract the right information from your answers, the ability to pick up on tiny differences in movement, the knowledge to know many different approaches to implement to help. That's what bf suppirt is. Lactation consultant is a more adequate term but ofcourse they are much more qualified so not the right term to describe bf councilors & bf peer suporters.

I have had terrible experiences with bf councilors, I'm not saying they are somehow all amazing. But it's a bit like hcp-theres often not alot of actual 'care' goes on there either, but they do have knowledge we don't. Bf suppirt is the same type of thing. It's not hand holding its imparting knowledge so mum can make am informed choice.

"And thank you for admitting that some women can't do it. Like it or not that wasn't clear in previous posts of yours to me"
I would like you to withdraw the word "admit". My position has been clear throughout- it it not my fault if you didn't read them clearly. I would also like you to apologise for calling me "unpleasant". It wa completely uncalled for.

"But she'd probably have been struck off if her superiors had found out..."
Bollocks.

No midwife who said this would be 'struck off' by her superiors. It's common sense.

Yeah but it's not that straightforward is it? Because my issue was not no breastmilk but not enough. So they should tell you to pump between feeds and top up with formula. It's just that despite the benefits of breastfeeding there is a point at which formula is the best solution all round. BUT they won't ever advise you that normally, you are told to try harder.

Y'see I couldn't stand mixed feeding the first time, so there is an element of decision there.

Why do you need to be so rude Bert?

But IMO it is you who is taking all of this so personally, and not reasonably either.

I was very, very angry about my postnatal experience with the twins. For a huge number of reasons but it wouldn't be reasonable to project my feelings onto other people.

Someone like Bert or tiktok is actually very highly likely to be on your side, and it is clear that your trust in BF support has been eroded by some really bad experiences but Bert is talking about ppl who want to BF getting support, which includes working out why there are problems, help to fix them including topping up, mixed feeding or switching to FF if you need to or want to.

Sometimes something is just so horrendous and people so awful that you end up seeing judgement where there isn't any. And TBH that IS what it seems like is happening with you increasingly on this thread, because if it wasn't you could have just said 'well yes but really it is not just BF support but IF support that needs to improve' as a lot of other people have said.

There was no reason to call Bert unpleasant or say she is saying all women can BF with support. It just isn't justified.

increasingly FWIW I had the total opposite experience to you, midwives were v quick to tell me to top up with formula at the first sign of any bfeeding issues.

In fact I was told they wouldn't discharge me unless my baby was given a formula feed.

Someone like Bert or tiktok is actually very highly likely to be on your side, and it is clear that your trust in BF support has been eroded by some really bad experiences but Bert is talking about ppl who want to BF getting support, which includes working out why there are problems, help to fix them including topping up, mixed feeding or switching to FF if you need to or want to.

I don't understand why you are dragging tiktok into this, who I have over the years through various of my namechanges found sensible and reasonable.

Like it or not I am not feeling that Bert is on my side. If Bert is serious about supporting she needs to support and talk round people who are twitchy and mistrusting, because that is part of it. She needs to see things from the perspectives of others.

What helped me move on from what happened with the twins BTW was getting involved with my local MSLC as a parent rep, to try and actually DO something about my crap experience. I even chaired it for a while. There are so many ppl who have had some awful experiences and it is true what wobbly says about 'not much care'. We made some really positive changes to care as a result of feeding in actual experiences of care to decision makers - including at least trying to change attitudes to IF support so that it wasn't all about BF and was more about IF generally, improving PN checks which due to NHS changes had disappeared for some GP practices, highlighting this to NHS England who were unaware some practices had stopped, changing the sleep safe advice slightly in response to reasearch re BF and bedsharing, doing our own piece of research into maternity care experiences and presenting it at the faculty of public health conference. It all gave me support, camraderie and made my negative experience a lot less personal and a lot more about failures in care for me.

Well done for breastfeeding for so long that is brilliant.

The baby will get antibodies from you so if you have weak immune system
Then the baby will too. The baby is also building up their immune system.

I found with DS1 he didn't catch barely anything first year, he had one illness and that was it. Even at nursery he always gets a runny nose but he has not caught anything other than the odd cough.

DS2 has already had a cold at a few weeks old because DS1 is always trying to hug him.

Subsequent children just seem to pick up a lot more illnesses because of older kids

Well yes she does. I completely agree, but you also have a responsibility to be reasonable TBF. If you let twitchiness and bad experiences trigger you to jump down someone's throat every time they don't use the specific words you would prefer then you are just making conflict where there is no need for it.

Increased if your problem was not enough milk then you are not one of the 1% then.

Off I have twins too! Only 8 mths younger than my singleton & bf all of them for several yrs! Singleton took nearly a yr longer than the twins to wean! She is an insanely jealous child tho, & I longed for a third breast to help with the dynamics of that mess of first couple of yrs many many times!

Wobbly! 8 months!

I don't know what I would have done! 3 yrs was hard enough!

DTS still asks all the time if he can feed! I stopped when they were two and they are 8 this year!