To think breastfeeding has made no difference to my dd and is massively overrated in terms of benefits?

[Placeanditspatrons]

I've nearly driven myself to a breakdown feeding my dd. She is 16 months now and I'm still feeding. She has been ill more times and worse than my formula fed from four months son. She does not recover any faster and she catches anything I get and gets it worse, despite supppsedly the antibodies passing to her and either preventing or reducing the severity of the illness.

I know it's anecdotal and the studies say overall bf babies are healthier but how much healthier? I mean I we talking one less cold? One less ear injection? Statistically? Many of my friends have said similar. Again anecdotal but I can't help wondering - after the colostrum which is more important I guess - does it really make any noticeable difference?

I think Bert is being misunderstood here.

She's talking about women who wanted to breastfeed and who could have done so, but who were unable to due to lack of info and proper support.

You have no idea at all

By wittering on about this 'unsupported' shit you make women feel like it is their fault. That is how I felt with DD1, that I had done something wrong and I ended up with PND. When the exact thing happened with Dd2 is when I felt at peace with it all. I am clearly one of the 1-15% 'support' would have made no difference at all.

It is not helpful at all. Perhaps you think you are being 'supportive' but you are not. Breastfeeding is not all, it may be best which I do not dispute but there are many circumstances where it is not best.

When you have been in hospital with your dehydrated baby you can tell me what to think.

There may well be women reading this who are in the same situation. Have some empathy. And please never become a 'peer supporter'

I think Bert is being misunderstood here.

I disagree
She thinks everyone can breastfeed 'with support'. That is damaging and wrong

"
Today 19:20 Increasinglymiddleaged

I think Bert is being misunderstood here.

I disagree
She thinks everyone can breastfeed 'with support'. That is damaging and wrong"

No I don't. That's why I asked you to read my post again.

I am a peer supporter.

A. It isn't 15% that physically can't breastfeed. Even the study that came from doesn't claim that.

B. I, and probably everyone else, is really very sorry that your BF experience contributed to your PND.

C. Bert is correct that there is a problem with a lack of BF support, poor quality BF support (including blindly missing babies who need hospitalisation) and people being given misinformation (IMO 'breast is best' is actually one of those misinformations as what is best depends on what is happening).

I will say this as gently as I can but really one of the real problems with all infant feeding is how high emotions run re whatever choice or whatever situation you find yourself in and this reaction to what Bert says is IMO an example of exactly the kind of negative consequences for every mother are created by the current situation.

Bert you have been throughout the thread at the idea that there are actually women who can't. Are you now admitting that you were wrong or that this is a misunderstanding of words and that for some people it really isn't possible?

increasinglymiddleaged-no I haven't. I think an apology might be in order.

Increasingly what support did you have from hcp for your bfing I'd be interested to know? Did anyone help you at all? Not just the initial latch but on days 3-5 when milk comes in?

OFFRED I did not say anywhere it was 15%. I don't care what the percentage is, but it happened to me, I am one of the 1% or 10K women per year in the UK, call it that.

Please don't patronise me, I am not thick but I had a really shitty experience. What I am saying is that all this 'lack of support' stuff made me feel worse not better. That is the opinion of someone whose baby ended up in hospital. But it should be about infant feeding support not breastfeeding support.

IMO 'breast is best' is actually one of those misinformations as what is best depends on what is happening And I agree I remember sitting in the waiting rooms and looking at those posters.

And TBH you don't need to be gentle with me, it is something I have come to terms with completely. But comments about it must be OK for all because the human race didn't die out OMG

Breast feeding support is someone getting to grasps with the underlying problem and helping mum find bf solouturns. It's not emotional support or hand holding-although these skills are of benefit to bf also- but it's more like a physio explaining the why a muscle is injured & what exersises are needed to fix it & prevent reoccurance. The 'support' role is often misunderstood in that respect.

Op I'm not reading the full thread so apologies if this has been said already but at population level bf is shown to have benefits. For full time healthy babies that may not be any/much difference. QuiCoker recovery if ill/one less ear infection/mums reduced (by small%) risk of bf. It's not the be all and end all. But with sick babies, v prem babies, the difference can be huge. It's one of the most influential factors (as far as research allows) between a prem baby getting nec or not & between those who survive it or not.

Breast milk has a number of things science can't replicate, anti bacterial, anti fungal & antiviral properties. Healthy hormones-the ones in it thought to be linked to childs long term lower risk if cancers-not the oxyticin from skin to skin. Healthy gut bacteria. Easiest to absorb form of nutrients for baby's. It's a live substance so adapts to what baby needs at any time. Immuglobin to line newborns porus gut. There's a bunch of other benefits like less teeth rot & teeth line up.

None of this is be all & end all. But for much more vulnerable babies it's important the difference between the two is recognised. And why we should have milk banks in all nicus if mums can't bf or express enough. Talking about the facts isn't hyping it up.

And I ended up in hospital with my week old baby so I do know a bit what you've been through. Interestingly the first thing they assumed when she was sick and they knew I'd been breastfeeding was that I'd dehydrated her - she actually had heart failure from other causes, but it still stuck with me for ages how quick they are to blame the mum. God knows how you must have felt trying to do the right thing by bfing and ending up in that position.

Increasingly what support did you have from hcp for your bfing I'd be interested to know? Did anyone help you at all? Not just the initial latch but on days 3-5 when milk comes in?

Yeah it was my fault for not doing it right. This is my exact point

I'm not actually sure what you mean about 'milk coming in' tbh because I'm one of the 1%.

Shit sunshine heart failure rather puts having to put your baby onto SMA into perspective, now I feel a bit of a fraud tbh

Ok now you are being unnecessarily defensive...

I just wondered what support you had?

Increasinglymiddleaged- that apology?

I find the whole 'lack of support' idea laughable.

So far there had been a 2 hour class on breastfeeding by nct, where the leader gave her mobile number so people could ring her for support 24 hours a day. I've got friends who are bf peer supporters who again are happy to help women 24 hours a day. There are support groups literally every day of the week in my local area,also open to women before their babies are born.

I'm not sure how much more support could be offered. It is easily the best supported aspect of early parenting.

I asked for guidance on the practicalities of bottlwfeeding, and got told by the nct course leader that they couldn't help me.

And my personal experience was that after feeding two babies EBF my twins (with a different dad) FTT because of poor milk transfer. Why they had poor milk transfer was never investigated, I topped up for one month. One of them then woke up covered in blood - he had split his lip tie. I looked in the other one's mouth and she had a lip tie. BF with a lip tie could have been fine if it had been picked up at the newborn paed check, by midwives, by health visitor or by me and I had been given the very simple advice to make sure as I latched them I pushed their lips upwards.

I didn't have any BF support, no-one even picked up the FTT until fairly late on, they wouldn't give me any advice about FF because 'breast is best and we can't talk about FF'. They didn't give me any advice re trying to express some to top up with. I had to work it all out on my own with twins and a three and four year old.

It isn't as simple as me being one of the women who physically can't BF. There were serious consequences for me and my babies because of pretty crap postnatal care. I was also bleeding heavily for 1 year after the birth too and no-one picked that up.

If you haven't had an explanation re why BF went badly you actually don't know why BF went wrong. If you don't want to know and are happier with FF it's not even important, but you can't just announce 'I am one of those women who physically couldnt' even though the whole experience may have been so traumatic that it is completely understandable why you wouldn't want to try again now and you don't want to be reminded of it.

The usual but latch was fine with both and they seemed to be feeding, I had some milk. Breasts didn't grow at all through the whole pregnancy (and I'm small). DD1 gave up and screamed in the end, refusing to feed. DD2 sucked 24/7, but the effect on their weight and my supply was identical. The second they were put on formula straight back up to the 25th centile, both of them.

Sorry, yes I am defensive about it. Some people on the internet like to tell me that all would have been well with more support. They weren't here and are wrong. It may have been better if the sensible support had told me with DD1 that I was right to put her on formula, because I was and the experience with DD2 proved that to me.

Increasingly - if was awful but she's removed well and is fine now.

I have however spent the last 6 months having random hurtful things said to me by hcp as we've been in and out of hospital with her over Winter. It's not just over feeding - I think hcp's in geverak are very quick to judge mums and push views on how we should parent. I've had to develop a thick skin TBH!

No hcp should have let you be in that situation where dehydration can occur - but it easily happens - babies can dehydrate in 12 hours when they are v little. Hence I think you should be angry at the 'system' that failed you and your baby, not yourself, who I'm sure did the very best you could, and def not bert who is trying to advocate for more bfing and more support for bfing in the U.K.

The 1% thing is another thing that's misunderstood, it means there are less than 1%of mums who will never be able to produce any breast milk ever with any child they try to bf. So mums who have had double mastectomy or have rare genetic disorders.

Mums who manage some bf with one kid, maybe not exclusively maybe not for long are not part of the less than 1% stat. It doesn't mean 99%+ can all fully exclusively bf every child. It does mean most if they got the correct information at the correct time and have circumstances that allow will be able to give their child some breast milk atleast.

Increasinglymiddleaged- that apology?

So are you saying that you admit that some women just can't do it? What have I got to apologise for exactly? Having a shit time and wanting to make sure you don't upset other women online?

My baby that didn't work properly didn't get a diagnosis (or rather several different diagnoses) until he was 7. So if I had heeded Betrand I may have felt guilty that it wasn't that my baby not working properly but rather that I wasn't doing enough, wasn't trying enough, hadn't sought out enough support. I might have tried to persevere to mine and my baby's detriment. He would certainly have been readmitted to hospital (only needed to drop another ounce for this to happen, he had already dropped loads). Betrand's attitude could have caused so much damage. Fortunately my midwife realised it was probably due to my baby not working properly though at the time this was the only sign of his disability. Equally fortunately, no one else I have come across in our journey has referred to him as not working properly!

Yes someone should have seen that you had the right latch and not enough milk. 'Support' includes saying top up after a feed. They should have said this to you once it became clear they were continuing to lose weight.

bert who is trying to advocate for more bfing and more support for bfing in the U.K.

But I fundamentally disagree with her position. It needs to be about more support for making sure every baby is fed in the best way. That isn't always breastfeeding.

I'm really glad your baby is OK now Sunshine