to ask how much freedom your ten year old has?

[hollyvsivy]

My daughter will be ten soon. I wouldn't say I'm super strict but it's begun to occur to me that she has way less freedom than others her age. We saw friends of hers at mcdonalds alone the other day with their iPhones in hand and make up on. Tonight we saw her friend out bike riding alone. Her other friend stays home alone while her mum takes her brother to swimming lessons. The majority have their own phones and/or tablets.

DD doesn't have a phone or tablet. She doesn't ask to use technology at home. She doesn't wear make up. She has never been out alone or with friends alone and I still don't like her going to the toilet alone in public places

Seeing as she's happy with how things are (and doesn't have the awful attitude a lot of her friends do!) AIBU to continue this way for as long as possible, or should I be encouraging her to grow up a bit? How much freedom does your ten year old have?

I don't think you are overprotective OP. I agree she will need to be road confident by the time she goes to secondary school but that's about it. She will come to other stuff in her own time. Is OP supposed to shove her dd in front of YouTube? Or buy her a phone and tablet and send her to the local fast food place just because a load of MNetters think she should?

To be honest I think there's a distinct tone as there always is on MN of "if you're not doing it my way then you're doing it the wrong way". The competitive independence I see her on MN is not reflected in RL in my experience.

I can't believe so many 8 year olds are allowed to do so by the schools, it seems very young to me.

I'm always amazed when I read this. Schools in England seem very involved in how a child gets to school and back. Where I live the teacher walks the class to the school gate until the end of P3. So from P4, age 7, onwards the teacher isn't involved. They won't even be able to see the child from when they walk out of the classroom. And in the mornings the teacher wouldn't have a clue how the child arrives, because they are expected to be left at the school gate.

The competitive independence I see her on MN is not reflected in RL in my experience. There is a lot of competitive over protectiveness on mumsnet that I don't see reflected in my day to day life either.

I think it's a bit odd to define "grown-up" as using mascara and lipstick and iPhones, anyway.

To me, growing up is about learning things, about having skills, about independent problem solving. And I don't think you ruin somebody's childhood by teaching those either.

There is a lot of competitive over protectiveness on mumsnet that I don't see reflected in my day to day life either.

But those posters tend to be shamed and told how pathetic they are and what a disservice they're doing their child, the other way, not so much. The only child I know who had the level of freedom some people give their kids on here, has been doing his own thing and hanging around on the streets since he was about six, school have intervened and so have SS but nothing really changed. He's very street wise and uses very grown up, derogatory language towards his class mates, talks about smoking weed etc. However when I mentioned this earlier I got accused of saying that ALL kids with this level of freedom are problematic. I wasn't then and I am not now but that is my experience and also of the many parents I know in my area. I agree though that freedoms given will vary considerably from area to area and that probably governs perceptions and how much is felt safe.

Oh and of a class of over thirty year 5's only eighy are allowed to walk home alone and they're fairly evenly split by the kind of child I mention above and the ones who live literally less than fifty metres from the school building.

I very much agree that walking home will depend on your area, how safe it is, what the school allows etc etc.

But there are other skills that pretty well any parent can and should teach: how to prepare a simple meal, how to dress and look after minor injuries without panicking, basic DIY, basic safety rules around electricity etc. (e.g. switch off/unplug an item that appears to be malfunctioning, know where the stopcock is in case of a leak).

To me, teaching skills is the very opposite of neglect.

The sign of a neglectful parent is that they send their child out into situations they have not been taught to handle. The sign of a responsible parent is that they are prepared to spend years teaching skills that they know will be needed. How can these ever look the same?

Have read the thread. I think I must be culturally Nordic, despite having been born and brought up in the UK. I'd be seriously worried about my 9 year old if he couldn't manage toiletting himself, getting changed by himself, crossing the road by himself or being left home alone for 10 minutes. He's allowed to play out on the street and adjacent green space too. The fear of attack thing is a real red herring imo. He's going to be at least 16 before he stands a chance of fighting a grown man off, and adult men are at risk of assault anyway. Can't keep him home forever on that basis.

10 is too young for iPhones and make-up. There's plenty of time for that. I teach 15 year olds many of whom dress and act beyond their years. There is sadness in their eyes from the difficult lives they lead. A childhood lost through no fault of their own.

FFS. And it's a bit of experimenting with make up and an iPhone that has caused the 'sadness in their eyes' is it? Which, by the way, is the most subjective and over emotive thing I've read for a while.

They are playing at being grown ups. And you know what, the VAST MAJORITY of children born in the 21st century in a modern democracy have oodles more time 'to be children' (whatever that means) than they ever did before unless they were born into a very privileged class. It wasn't pretty dresses and rope swings in idyllic woodland glades are far as the eye can see for most children in the past. Life was hard, brutal and short.

There is a very fucking thinly veiled message of classist bullshit running through this thread. Apparently it's ok if your child wants to demonstrate some freedom by running through the fields and biking off to meet their friends in dens, like they did in the nice Just William books, but they slap a bit of make up on and fuck off for a cheeseburger and that's them and their future done for?

I'm as middle class as they come, but I'll tell you what, we're doing plenty of children a disservice, mollycoddling them and behaving like childhood is a precious magical time that the 'real world' shouldn't intrude upon. There can be plenty of WONDERFUL times that children can have - while they also learn to be capable, responsible, loving and thoughtful individuals.

To me, growing up is about learning things, about having skills, about independent problem solving. And I don't think you ruin somebody's childhood by teaching those either.

This. Really.

A large part of my DD's childhood was very difficult. We lived in an abusive and frightening environment. Sometimes she has sadness in her eyes because of that. When I give her freedoms and independence I see joy and I see her confidence grow.

So if your child doesn't have to grow up, why allow it?

Because that is your fucking job. Building an adult. Not keeping a child in a state of suspended growth, based on a over-romanticised view of children and childhood from middle-class books and an idealised experience that hardly any child ever has experienced.

Absolutely agree cory

OH is an electrician so he's often teaching DD about the dangers of electricity and how to safely use it and thinks up good example situations of the right and wrong thing to do. We also get her to dress any small wounds we get e.g. OH cut his thumb yesterday and she looked for the right plaster and made sure he washed the cut first.

The only child I know who had the level of freedom some people give their kids on here, has been doing his own thing and hanging around on the streets since he was about six, school have intervened and so have SS but nothing really changed.

OMG, best strawman ever! I have never read a post on here (this thread or elsewhere) where a parent has said 'I've let my kid do his own thing and hang around on the streets since he was 6.' and had everyone nod along and say 'Mmmm, yes, lovely, you're such a good parent teaching him to be so independent.'

That has literally never happened.

But those posters tend to be shamed and told how pathetic they are and what a disservice they're doing their child, the other way, not so much.

I don't agree with that at all. If I had £1 for every time I've seen the words 'it's just not worth the risk' on mumsnet about things like a ten year old walking to school alone or playing out with friends I'd be very rich indeed. There is often an underlying sentiment of 'well, clearly I care more about my children than you do' in a lot of those posts too.

By 10 they should be able at least to cross roads,get themselves to and from school.
I have a 9 yr old and a 7 year old.They both get out of school the same time,so walk down together. I meet you hem at the traffic lights.

Meant to say is she your eldest .I found people are stricter with the eldest and younger children have more freedom.

Totally agree Cory and blue.

Dds friends family gave their kids more freedom than I would have done. Result - fantastic grounded friendly kids. Child came to tea with Dd I left them alone as went upstairs on my return they had made a cake! Inspired me to encourage more independence in my own kids.

They can be pretty capable at this age. When I left Dd alone she tidied the downstairs without being asked it looked amazing. She was so proud of herself

Brilliant post blue, you articulated what I was struggling to realise I felt

blue you're misunderstood as I knew someone would. Please re read what I actually posted. Fortunately most others got what I meant or I have no doubt there would be utter outrage.

By year 6, practically ALL of Dd1s class were walking home alone

Not much, she has ASD, developmental delay and learning difficulties. Though I would allow her more freedom such as walking to the shop 5 mins away, if she did not have high anxiety. She does not have friends due to her condition and she goes to a special school for children with ASD. She does not have a phone, as she does not want one, I don't see the need for her to have one, as she has an adult with her when she is out.

Thinking of my own rather idyllic childhood, the things that stand out- apart from the complete conviction that my parents would care for me and keep me safe- are the glowing memories of the times when I mastered a new skill and did something "real": the meal I cooked for my dad's 40th, the runner I embroidered for my cousin's wedding, the first time I went to the local shop and bought something with my own money, the times spent up a ladder helping to paint the house.

Children need these memories too, not just memories of having been looked after by other people.

Oh, and as apparently I am having one of those fun, ranty days, here's one more thought.

I really wish parents would stop sighing over their kids' childhoods 'going by so fast' and how they 'all grow up too quickly now'. Because

(a) it's empirically not true
(b) kids reach a point when they want to grow up so when you start fearing that and trying to prevent it, then I don't believe you're doing it for the child, you're doing it for you
(c) fucking embrace the adult they are becoming. In terms of lifespan, you're right the childhood part isn't very long at all. But instead of treating that like a huge sadness, think about how awesome it will be to see your capable, loving, beautiful and decent adult child and know you played a part in that. And that you willingly helped to bring it about and engaged with the silly pre-teen and teenage nonsense and enjoyed it as much the playing with plastic bricks stage. For me, the pre-teen/teenage stage has been the hardest, but also the most rewarding, bit so far because I get a ringside seat (and even some say) into what kind of adult my DD will become. That's not something to fear. And if you do fear it and hang back from it and try and resist, they'll just do it without you.

blue you're misunderstood as I knew someone would. Please re read what I actually posted. Fortunately most others got what I meant or I have no doubt there would be utter outrage.

I have reread your original post and the part I quoted and I don't believe I have misunderstood your words at all. Maybe you 'meant' something else, but the child you were talking about had clearly vastly different circumstances to the children whose parents are posting considered responses about building independence on here and how they choose to do it. You compared the two things, to make a particular point. Own it.

Why are you so aggressive? Do you feel sill because you misunderstood? I won't explain because you don't deserve it.

This is obviously something you feel very strongly about as evidenced by the rantiness of your posts.

silly

Well said Blue. Reading this I feel very sad that childhood seems to be equated witj total lack of freedom. Can't people see that a really lovely part of childhood is Play - ie having freedom to build relationships witj friends and make small risky decisions of the type thst come from playing unsupervised by adults.

Why is there an assumption thst playing out in a park or street without adults would mean 'growing up ' . I think it's a really huge gift to children to let them play without being watched or supervised all the time. It is a normal part of childhood for most children in the world.

Honestly I would be sad if by ten years old ny kids had no freedom to play outside with friends