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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to buy my elderly neighbour wine and cigarettes

198 replies

gta · 22/04/2017 07:21

She's 76
She has emphysema and a condition which makes her discs in her back crumble away basically
Her only son died last year of a rare cancer and since then she's asked me to get her 40 cigarettes and 2 bottles of wine daily
At first I refused until she told me she's 100% definitely going to die of her conditions and she just wants to enjoy her life and if I didn't go to the shop for her she'd walk herself and end up being in immense pain and breathless on her nebuliser for the rest of the afternoon!
My partner thinks I shouldn't be aiding her , but I felt so bad watching her hobble to the shops I thought if she's gonna do it anyway , I might as well make it as easy as I can for her so aibu???

OP posts:
Hulder · 22/04/2017 15:05

Goosey and no doubt she will be turning up to hospital and the GP bemoaning how ill she feels and asking them what they can do about it.

Unless she is genuinely trying to end it - by which I mean no hospital admissions if she deteriorates, end of life care only - then all you are doing is enabling an alcoholic.

PeaFaceMcgee · 22/04/2017 15:24

I would contact adult social care and check out what they might advise if she's a vulnerable person.

lostatsea1 · 22/04/2017 15:26

Please treat this lady with the dignity and respect she deserves. She is a mature consenting adult who is making her own choice and does not need patronising do Gooders 'helping her'.

I have cancer which is almost certainly not terminal but it made me think....when I am diagnosed with a terminal illness I'm going back to smoking and taking heroin cocaine and every other drug. Anyone tries to tell me I shouldn't can do one.

PeaFaceMcgee · 22/04/2017 15:29

It's not about controlling someone's choices though... she can do what she likes. It's about actively delivering an addict their substances. OP's neighbour and partner are right to not want to have anything to do with that.

PeaFaceMcgee · 22/04/2017 15:29

(if they feel uncomfortable, that is)

brasty · 22/04/2017 15:33

I used to be a carer for a woman in her 20s who was dying of an incurable disease. I used to buy her a bottle of wine a day as part of my caring. Adults get to decide how they live, even if it is not good for them.

Gabilan · 22/04/2017 16:46

We don't actually know what her prognosis is. People can live with emphysema for years. It's a progressive disease rather than necessarily terminal.

She's an addict. The way addicts make choices about what they consume is quite different from the non-addict.

It's not about dictating her choices. It's about whether or not to enable her to make what is ultimately a poor choice in managing her condition. On balance maybe you could think "oh, buy her what she likes, what's she got to look forward to" and find yourself doing this for the next 5 years. Or until she sets fire to herself.

SabineUndine · 22/04/2017 16:51

YANBU. From what you say, she knows her own mind and has chosen this. Essentially she has the mental capacity to decide to smoke and drink more than is good for her, for the reasons she has given.

HmmOkay · 22/04/2017 16:55

I also think the OP is in a no win situation here.

Can you really commit to getting her booze and fags every day OP? You're never going to be away from home for a night? Or you might be sick yourself one time and therefore can't get it for her? Or you go out after work one night and forget?

You could have years of this.

All of that said, I do feel for your neighbour. And you are a good, kind neighbour yourself.

usernumbernine · 22/04/2017 16:55

It's totally different if a carer is told to provide the booze as part of a caring package where Social Services have been in and assessed need. This isn't that kind of situation as the OP hasn't indicated that carers or social workers are involved. (Different discussion as to whether they should be or not)

If the woman is deemed to have capacity and carers are in and are told to provide 2 bottles of wine and forty fags a day, that's a decision that has been made by someone (social worker for example) weighing up all the information about the woman's condition, likely life expectancy, other drugs she's on for pain relief/other conditions, the danger of smoking around oxygen if she has it in the house etc.

The OP simply doesn't know enough to be confident in her decision.

Timeforabiscuit · 22/04/2017 16:59

If a neighbour asked me, i would say no.

HmmOkay · 22/04/2017 17:24

Yes, Gabilan, FIL was diagnosed with emphysema 12 years ago. He is 87 now and coping reasonably well with it.

He gave up smoking immediately of course otherwise he wouldn't have lasted 12 years. He is on oxygen at home now.

That's what prompted my "you could have years of it" statement. I originally put decades and then decided to tone it down a bit.

And it really isn't about controlling someone else's choices. The OP isn't going to be picketing outside her neighbour's house with banners saying "Down With Fags and Booze".

She would just be exercising her own right not to involve herself in a situation that is going to end badly.

Interesting to hear the different perspectives though.

brasty · 22/04/2017 17:55

usernumbernine Yes she had been assessed by SS, but of course a bottle of wine a day was not part of her care package. But my job did include doing shopping for her. I bought what she asked for.

BillSykesDog · 22/04/2017 18:44

Do it. She is 76, very ill and her son has died.

A lot of people on here seem to be working from the position that health should be protected and life prolonged at all costs. Why?

In her position life is going to mean an isolated and lonely existence full of grief for her lost son. She struggles to get out the house so can't do much. Giving up smoking and drinking would provide a short term improvement in her condition which would prolong her life before it did get worse again. But what quality is that life? She's not going to be roller skating in the park in a few weeks and she's probably not at the stage of life or physically capable of finding a new partner or rebuilding a personal life after the loss of her son (and possibly earlier a spouse too). And she is going to have to go through the final stages of her illness anyway - it's putting it off, not avoiding it.

In her position would you honestly be concerned with prolonging a lonely, painful life with only death to look forwards to?

In her shoes I think I would be doing anything I could to hasten the inevitable and I don't blame her at all for thinking a few years of fags and boozing which are actually quite enjoyable is a better option than a decade of misery and becoming slowly sicker and more infirm and more depressed.

I'd much rather have a fall pissed and die than spend ten years leading a rotten quality of life.

halcyondays · 22/04/2017 19:06

A fall wouldn't necessarily kill you though, but you could end up paralysed.

Timeforabiscuit · 22/04/2017 19:09

Bill I, rather selfishly, wouldnt do it because of the effect on me - having my brother walk in on my alcoholic mothers remains after she had fallen whilst drunk focusses the mind, it also makes me wonder if tesco ever put a limit on the amount of booze she could order online.

A fall pissed with no one in the house meant a slow death, fine if you choose that way for yourself but dont lay that on the person who has been posting booze through the door for you.

noeffingidea · 22/04/2017 19:34

No I wouldn't buy her the fags, because of the fire risk to the neighbours. No reason why other people should be put at risk.
I probably would buy her the wine.
I have bought alcohol for an alcoholic before (though not in such large amounts) because it was what she wanted and needed at the time. She was in pain (emotional) and that was the only way she could get through each day. At the same time I encouraged her and supported her to get medical help to detox.

BillSykesDog · 22/04/2017 20:08

A fall pissed with no one in the house meant a slow death, fine if you choose that way for yourself but dont lay that on the person who has been posting booze through the door for you.

A lot quicker than emphysema though. And her neighbour's are just as likely to find her dead from that too. Plus it sounds unlikely loved ones will find her dead.

honeyfull · 22/04/2017 20:19

I'd do it, but maybe order online for her and have it delivered to her house. I am sure she will pay you back. Might be able to get some other things she would like too at the same time. Non smoker here so perhaps online shopping does not include them. Anyway.

I'd be a tad concerned that the local offie would think it was me drinking all that stuff and smoking my brains out if I bought all that booze and fags regularly! But who cares.

Do it OP. I don't think you will regret it. You might regret it if you don't.

clarkl2 · 23/04/2017 17:25

No harm to it at all, if its causing grief show her how to shop online and get it delivered

cheval · 23/04/2017 17:28

Oh poor old love. I would buy them for her, you might get a bit of a reputation in local shop though!

newtlover · 23/04/2017 17:34

if she chooses this and has capacity (which it sounds like she does) I'd be inclined to get it for her, as long as she realises OP may not always be able to do it.
BUT, I'd suggest she manages her risk, eg has smoke alarms which are tested regularly and some form of personal alarm that would notify if she fell.

SoapyTitWank · 23/04/2017 17:39

Defo YABU
That level of drinking leads to falls, falls leads to ambulance visits, broken bones, cuts and bruises and long hospital stays.
I have experience of this kind of issue with a family member.
If she is in her own home, alone then the help her get this level of alcohol is irresponsible and un kind.
She would not be able to get this amount by herself.
If you want her to improve her quality of life for the rest of her days then visit her and chat and if possible help support giving up the cigs (which is directly linked to her COPD) her breathing would improve no end if she could crack that.
Helping her getting dangerously drunk is just horrible imo

WomanStanley · 23/04/2017 17:43

I think it's nice if you. It depends what kind of person you are. Loads of people say they don't give homeless people money in case they spend it on drugs or drink. I can honestly say that I'd need a drink and hard drugs to sleep a night in a city centre doorstep.

KTC40 · 23/04/2017 17:49

Hi I would definitly make sure she has a working fire alarm in case of an accidental fire! As for the alcohol and cigs, tricky as don't know her prognosis, worked in the community and when you have heavy smokers and drinkers who have for most of their lives, they have no interest in giving up, if housebound it is one of their only pleasures, does she usually drink 2 bottles a day? If so stopping she might go into withdrawal, COPD is not a nice thing to live with and you can get very depressed, bit torn on this one, only thing is, if you start then what happens when you are on holiday, away, sick etc it's quite a commitment, FWIW if I was palliative I would want to do the things I enjoy