AIBU to be grossed out ?Autogynaphila and Mrs Goss

[Pollypickypocket]

Not quite sure if my reaction is justified to be honest. Have just been in a conversation with a psychologist friend about feminism, trans issues and various theories of the advantages of gender rolls in evolutionary theory etc - wide ranging and pretty interesting as we are both gender critical but have differing views on biological aspects. He however raised the issue of late transitioning autogynaphils and how part of the fetish is being acknowledged as female/feminine/sexually attractive. I was sort of aware of autogynaphila but didnt honestly click what it ment or that it was a sexual fetish rather than an identity issue.
On Facebook I am member of Mrs Gloss a make up group and it's just occurred to me that its actually being used on occasion by autogynaphils to fuel their sexual fetishes if what he says is correct and it's really freaked me out to be honest.

Trans people are more now widely accepted, but unfortunately that has allowed a whole bunch of men with AGP who identify as trans access things like MrsGloss.

And not just that site, but any site that was traditionally for women.

Most people don't know about AGP, but equally many women just get a 'feeling' that something's not right.

What do you know how prevalent it is, it does become fairly obvious.

Best to avoid.

I agree with you OP. I used to volunteer on a telephone helpline and we used to get men phoning up wanting to discuss how wearing tights made them feel sexy and did we feel the same. I was young and naive and didn't realise they were having a wank, and the helpline policy was we were supposed to talk to them. But as I always said things like - I don't wear tights, they didn't bother talking to me for long.
And yes, I do not want to be someone's wank fodder for their sexual fetish.

The problem is "trans" used to mean something different to cross dressers, transvestites, drag, transsexuals and fetish involving womens clothes.

You can blame TRAs for that not rad fems BTW

So now we are blasted for using their language (trans) about festishes that we wouldn't have called transgender 10 years ago!

If I was a truely trans gender person I'ld be furious at being in the same class as transfetishists and transsexuals and transvestites!

The fact that you read those reddit posts where even a small snapshot of them showed how hateful they are just confounds to me that you are being prejudice and unkind to one group of people.

The reddit posts, are posted by AGPs. So how on earth can the problem be that they are so hateful. This is AGP from the inside :S Cannot blame ME for being hateful when it is the AGPs themselves putting their fetish onto the internet for all to read. Its my fault that a lot of them play out their fetishes and post about things such as hiding in loos to hear people pee..do so publically

If you are masturbating when you put a dress on in the privacy of your own home, is that a problem?

Not if the dress is yours. If it is take from another family/household member without them knowing then yes, it is a problem. Of course some on here will argue that the dress could be washed and the household member none the wiser...but IMO..its a violation of the person whos clothing it actually is. Same as if any guy took a pair of someone elses knickers (for example...as this seems to be a depressingly common problem with straight (cis...) men and knickers) without their knowledge to get himself off with. Its just not right.

Anyway, leaving this now as the conversation is quite creepy. Sorry to other posters if you find it offensive that I think kinks and fetishes should be practiced in private.

I wasn't aware you were addressing a question to me specifically OfficerVanHalen.

And altho no, you can't tell definitively whether someone AGP or not, there are a few pointers. I don't go on MrsGloss, but the OP has raised the issue of AGP.

The more people understand the fetish, the more they will be able to trust their intuition.

I wasn't really making any other point other than to let people know how the fetish can manifest itself.

i'm wanking right now. OR AM I? you're right, OP. it's a ruddy minefield.

Well exactly exWifebeginsat40. It's very difficult to tell.

However the public are now becoming more aware of the issue with AGP. The trans community are divided over it.

India Willoughby (a transwomen in the media), tried to reset the criteria for being trans in order to keep the AGP individuals out of it. Because more and more people see the implications.

Unfortunately, she got a massive backlash of abuse from those individuals and was compelled to issue a grovelling apology three days later.

It would be great if they could sort it out.

I was added onto MrsGloss by a friend but removed myself after a few weeks of the unutterable and relentless tedium of having my feed cluttered up by a bunch of pouty women a little too fond of their own reflections, all fishing for compliments about their appearance

YES.

Not to mention the normalisation of lip fillers in really young women which shocked me.

I also rolled my eyes at the TWs fishing for compliments. Although the "you have lovely legs!" comments happen because it's usually the only genuine compliment that can be given. Because they sure don't pass as women.

As for autogynephilia, I don't object per se. Whatever gets you off, etc. But I do object to autogynephiles invading female spaces for validation and to feel like a laydee. I don't want to be inadvertently involved in your wank fantasises, ta.

HeyRoly

As for autogynephilia, I don't object per se. Whatever gets you off, etc. But I do object to autogynephiles invading female spaces for validation and to feel like a laydee. I don't want to be inadvertently involved in your wank fantasises, ta.

I hear what you're saying, but I flip a little backwards and forwards over this one. AGP is essentially a humiliation fetish (forced feminisation, cissification).

I object to my womanhood being synonymous with a victim being humiliated. The message that sends out to women and girls is atrocious.

On the other hand, from what I have read, the obsession is absolutely compulsive.

Originally, it was used as a criteria for not being able to access treatment. So you couldn't access the feminising hormones or surgery if you had AGP. (I suppose because they were buggered if they were going to let the NHS and people's taxes finance a fetish).

Consequently, anyone with AGP just denied it. Tips and tricks on how to deceive a psychologist, abound on social media.

So you are left with people with AGP who can access the NHS, but by the same token the entire issue has gone underground. Along with any treatment that might diminish it.

NHS quidelines for hormone therapy and such are a fucking joke tbh. Firsthand accounts from people who have gone through it have told me you get a 'mark against your name' if you turn up in 'blokes clothing' meaning..jeans and a top. You know how many many females dress. So they are in effect, forced to become walking stereotypes whilst awaiting SRS or whatever. Needs sorted out in so many ways.

I hadn't considered the humiliation fetish angle. Well, I'm not au fait with humiliation fetishes full stop But I take your point absolutely about the AGP ideal of womanhood = victim to be humiliated and how gross that is.m

Also, I had no idea that AGPs weren't allowed to access hormones/surgery on the NHS. I assumed that they were, considering how many actually DO access hormones/surgery on the NHS. How naive of me

HeyRoly

They have campaigned like mad to reduce the criteria for identifying as trans. Right up to self identification - so no criteria whatsoever, other than saying so out loud.

It's one of the reasons why people come down as polar opposites on the trans issue. A lot of people know, what I would call for the sake of argument, homosexual trans. So attracted to the same sex. They generally do not have AGP and aren't the ones campaigning for women's spaces. People get very upset because these people are generally very nice, harmless.

But when you have experienced the AGP crowd who are the ones compaigning, it takes on an entirely different colour.

I don't think many women would agree to allowing them to access females in intimate spaces in order to implement a fetish.

But how can you tell the difference?

With the criteria for diagnosing transgender being reduced at an alarming rate, it's very difficult.

how much of an alarming rate, datun? what were the original criteria and what are they now? over what period of time have these changes taken place?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/10/transgender-clinic-waiting-times

This is from last year, I do believe new figures are due out any day now

getting a 404 for that link

'Women don't tend to have fetishes''? I suppose if you really think that and you are (or identify as) a woman, then it is perhaps a bit more logical that you find the mere idea of fetishes - or masturbation - disgusting and scary and the sort of behaviour that must be stopped.
I see a whole lot of negative assumptions being made on here - that all transwomen are predatory perverts, even the ones who genuinely do have a keen interest in lipgloss or shoes (which is more than I do, and I'm a ciswoman). That anyone who has a fetish is going to try and force it on other people who are not interested. That anyone even thinking about an unusual sexual practice is somehow hurting loads of other people who they have never met or made any kind of approach to.
When it's a matter of peole posting in an open internet discussion group, you're always going to get a proportion of pests and wingnuts, whether it's the ones trying to sign you up to the latest dokney juice pyramid selling scam, the god-botherers, the needy whiny egotists who make every discussion All About Them... or the ones looking for wank fodder. You ignore, and move on.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/10/transgender-clinic-waiting-times-patient-numbers-soar-gender-identity-services

Managed to chop the end off it, doh!

or masturbation - disgusting and scary and the sort of behaviour that must be stopped

I see no posts on here at all that express any fear or disgust about plain old masterbation, and neither do you if you're honest

being uncomfortable and angry about being tricked into "performing" and being part of someone's masterbation session without your concent is not the same as clutching pearls over masterbation in itself.

solid

'Women don't tend to have fetishes''? I suppose if you really think that and you are (or identify as) a woman, then it is perhaps a bit more logical that you find the mere idea of fetishes - or masturbation - disgusting and scary and the sort of behaviour that must be stopped.

I'm really not interested in derailing into a linguist sparring match about the prevalence of fetishes in women.

AGP is an exclusively male fetish. It relies on the deception and the unwitting participation of women. It's not about masturbation (a healthy practice) it's about the criteria for the arousal.

Criteria is very important. Children, for instance as a criteria, is unacceptable.

Whether you think fetishing the the perceived weakness and humiliation of women is acceptable is between you and your psyche.

As I said, it's a compulsion and very hard to overcome. But I absolutely draw the line at including anyone else in it, as an unaware prop, and promoting the idea of women as victims, as anything other than completely unacceptable.

"...come on here and make this thread about a fb group they are not members of and have nothing to do with a full on scaremongering thread about transwomen"

As opposed to the posters coming on here making this thread about a fb group they are not members of and have nothing to do with a great big pro-fetish "you just all hates the trans" love in?

Despite people who are in the group saying it bothers them (who now know - thanks to this thread - that the group admin are on the case and will respond to reports)?

Despite the group owner admitting there is a (small) problem and that she is not happy with people using the group for that purpose?

I lost "predatory" from my quote as it didn't all copy over properly.

full on scaremongering thread about predatory trans women

If women are expressing discomfort about being the subject of a fetish, I'm not sure why giving them even the smallest tools to recognise it would be called scaremongering.

I have no experience of the website in question, but I have lots of experience talking to men with AGP.

As the subject of this thread is AGP, I am using my experience to let women know what it looks like.

Hopefully they may be better equipped to recognise it.