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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be grossed out ?Autogynaphila and Mrs Goss

278 replies

Pollypickypocket · 20/04/2017 20:17

Not quite sure if my reaction is justified to be honest. Have just been in a conversation with a psychologist friend about feminism, trans issues and various theories of the advantages of gender rolls in evolutionary theory etc - wide ranging and pretty interesting as we are both gender critical but have differing views on biological aspects. He however raised the issue of late transitioning autogynaphils and how part of the fetish is being acknowledged as female/feminine/sexually attractive. I was sort of aware of autogynaphila but didnt honestly click what it ment or that it was a sexual fetish rather than an identity issue.
On Facebook I am member of Mrs Gloss a make up group and it's just occurred to me that its actually being used on occasion by autogynaphils to fuel their sexual fetishes if what he says is correct and it's really freaked me out to be honest.

OP posts:
CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 18:56

Damn autocorrect Blush

I meant completely right.

WankingMonkey · 23/04/2017 20:58

LOL. You clearly have not read enough about autogynephilia. Thats all

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 21:29

Actually I still think you're the ignorant one love.

And demonising people for any sexual orientation or fetish they have is the height of ignorance. Do all straight men get turned on every time they see a woman? No. Anyone who is an autogynephile is just another person with a sexual preference. This hate and "disgust" you feel so strongly about (which has nothing to do with you BTW) is exactly what causes pretty much every social conflict. Ignorance turning to hate. Why don't you try and stop being so judgemental and narrow minded and get on with your life.

I honestly can't believe how much utter bollocks I've read on this thread. Shameful

SolidGoldBrass · 23/04/2017 21:40

It's really very simple: if someone gets some wank fodder from looking at you (without approaching you in any way) or from having a passing conversation with you about the subject that excites them, without you even realising (at least, until some paranoid, officious wingnut starts making a huge fucking fuss about it and telling you that you have been 'violated' by the fact that someone eg got you to say 'carrot cake' twice) then it's not even your business. Are you so precious that you've never, ever looked at an attractive passer-by and wondered what it would be like to kiss/touch/date/marry that person? Never had a self-pleasuring session over a video of [insert celebrity of your choice}

Everyone is entitled to their fantasies, however odd they might seem to the rest of us. It does you no harm whatsoever to have the option of saying 'You look nice in that frock' to someone - or not making a comment and moving on. It is different from people asking you to reveal something you don't want to eg sharing your experience of trauma with someone who claims to be a fellow sufferer but is in fact writing a novel about the topic (clue: the latter is abusive and the former is not).
Some people just have such a brain melt at the thought of someone obtaining sexual pleasure in a way that doesn't appeal to them that they can't maintain any sense of perspective.

WankingMonkey · 23/04/2017 21:42

And demonising people for any sexual orientation or fetish they have is the height of ignorance.

If I am unwillingly being made a part of their fetish then I don't see why there is a problem with me finding this vile.

If you are fine with some dude getting his rocks off listening to you open a tampon packet, then great. I am not and never will be. Sorry.

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 21:50

Wanking I just have no words for your logic.

I have not found one reputable source that says autogynephilia specifically involves any other woman (since you are so focused on this one group of people you find so very disgusting). The term explicitly refers to having the potential to be turned on by the thought/image/fantasy of yourself as woman.

I think you really need to grow up and realise how silly your argument on this is. When will "some dude" be able to hear you "open a tampon packet" - genuinely answer that one for me please?

Again, there will be people who are aroused by things they see and hear every day, regardless. Why you are choosing to hate on this one group of people shows to me how you are just ignorant. As long as you only offer publicly what you are happy and comfortable putting out there, then you have no right to complain about whatever someone else chooses to think and feel privately - obviously!! Hmm

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 21:51

And it is dehumanising to judge or hold the view of someone based solely on their sexual orientation/preferences. No one is so rampant pervert who is 100% horny all the time. Just honestly get a grip.

UserX · 23/04/2017 21:55

If you are fine with some dude getting his rocks off listening to you open a tampon packet, then great. I am not and never will be. Sorry.

Am I missing something? How would anyone even have access to you opening a tampon packet?

People will wank over anything. If you want to ensure that your comments are not being wanked over, don't leave comments.

Also, how would you ever know? How does it hurt you, what someone does in the privacy of their own home? Wanking whilst fantasizing about other adults isn't illegal, last time I checked.

TinselTwins · 23/04/2017 21:55

"why do you care?"

because if you want somebody to be involved in your kink with you, it should be mutually consentual

tricking people into being part of your fetish crosses a serious line

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 22:03

First of all Tinsel that is NOT what is happening regarding autogyn.

Secondly there is an ENORMOUS difference (sorry, it's true) between someone happening upon you or a picture of you, thinking you are attractive, and maybe having that image as an inspiration when they are by themselves completely without your knowledge and involvement and saying that doing so is the same as "making you part of their fetish". What a ridiculous thing to think they could possibly be the same. If you honestly, truly believe that logic then it has to apply to EVERY group of people who could possibly find you attractive. I bet you don't feel so disgusted by straight men though right?

It's actually quite insulting to say that people are "forcing you to be part of their fetish", which is obviously a massive abuse, when they are just normal people, not involving you or reaching out to you in any way.

BeyondUser24601 · 23/04/2017 22:07

Cherries I'm confused by that post? Did you read the rest of the thread - you seem to be talking about something different to the OPs examples?

BeyondUser24601 · 23/04/2017 22:14

I.e. "ENORMOUS difference (sorry, it's true) between someone happening upon you or a picture of you, thinking you are attractive, and maybe having that image as an inspiration when they are by themselves completely without your knowledge" is not getting someone to actively take part in your fetish under false pretences.

BeyondUser24601 · 23/04/2017 22:17

It makes the people in the group uncomfortable, they comment so as to prove how not uncomfortable they are, and the poster gets off on having that control.

That is getting someone to take part in your fetish under false pretences.

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 22:19

I'm not sure what example you're referring to, I was addressing the posters who think that someone having private thoughts about a person, without the other person having any knowledge or involvement whatsoever is akin to some kind of personal violation. It is not.

And I've only read the first few pages and the couple of the OP's posts I saw are, unfortunately. In this rather prejudice vein too - i.e, (to paraphrase) "I helped a trans person by some shoes, I feel grubby about it, as it could have been a turn on for her to wear those shoes". It's just not acceptable to judge people like this.

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 22:23

If you are aware that someone is getting turned on by something you are doing and you are aware of it, you can leave the forum or whatever. No you shouldn't "have to" but no one should "have to" take any safety or wellbeing precautions in an ideal world. It is not the one we live in.

I'm also very concerned at the attitudes towards this "fetish", because 1. there seem to be huge misconceptions about what it means, and 2. posters seem to be grouping a whole group of people together. ANYONE can be a pervert, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation.

I've seen a worrying trend of people hearing the word "autogynephilia" and assuming it's something disgusting, unnatural and harmful, that will affect them. It's not the case and posters like WankingMonkey and thos with similar attitudes are just spreading ignorance which causes fear and malice.

BeyondUser24601 · 23/04/2017 22:25

I must have missed that post Confused

The OP is talking about the examples of AGPs on the mrs gloss Facebook group. The examples that mrs gloss herself has come here and acknowledged do exist.

OfficerVanHalen · 23/04/2017 22:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 22:28

Yes but I've already said, anyone can be a pervert. It doesn't mean we all have to jump on the bandwagon of hate calling anyone who is AGP "disgusting" and saying it "freaks them out".

OfficerVanHalen · 23/04/2017 22:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 22:30

*OfficerVanHalen"

Exactly.

I was gonna say, it sounds like a bit of a first world problem TBH. Being present on an internet forum or group where someone is being a bit pervy is not the same as them "actively forcing you to take part in their fetish". Just close the web page and move on. Report it if they are persistent. The fact that they are AGP is not what makes them a pervert Hmm

ItsNotUnusualToBe · 23/04/2017 22:31

It's a shame when someone joins a close knit group and makes existing members uncomfortable. Whatever the specifics.
So hard to define but it's the Emperors Clothes innit - it's obvious unless you're hell bent on not seeing it.

OfficerVanHalen · 23/04/2017 22:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DJBaggySmalls · 23/04/2017 22:59

CherriesInTheSnow Kinks are fine with me as long as they are between informed and consenting adults.
But some men get off on you not giving consent, and we cant tell who they are before we are involved.
they also get off on our distress when we find out.

I'm aware of this because I was married to a man who turned out to be an autogynephile and voyeur, and I was just his mirror.
I've also been ejaculated on in public. Thats another non consensual kink acted out in public.
Be as outraged as you like on their behalf but dont be naive. Other women have had different experiences to yours.

CherriesInTheSnow · 23/04/2017 23:07

I have had plenty of experiences of unwanted sexual contact, I don't count myself as naive.

I just have a problem with the attitudes of many on this thread, and the context of what it is these people are getting so outraged about.

It is also just wrong to compare someone acting like this in person, with you involved, and being on a random internet page and deducing that someone gets pleasure out of people commenting on their pictures. I respect that you have gone through something unpleasant but it isn't the same at all as what this thread is about.

I also still maintain that it's not fair to judge all AGP (or all anyone) as being pervy, seedy, grubby, disgusting and many other words used on this thread to describe these people. The fact that you are uncomfortable with something does not give you the right to be an arsehole (not aimed directly at you).

WankingMonkey · 23/04/2017 23:07

Am I missing something? How would anyone even have access to you opening a tampon packet?

In a female loo..

Honestly, autogynephiliacs find ANYTHING about females arousing. including menstruation products. Yes they are turned on by the idea of themselves as women, but also everything else thats 'strictly' female. They get off on accessing private female areas, by 'passing' or being told this, so even getting into a ladies loo unchallenged would be a large rush. So yes, they would find the sound of another female peeing, or changing sanitary products arousing.

My link was meant to be in a reddit group also. I have about 7 pages open.

I don't give a shit about peoples fetishes. But if they use other people in them without others knowing, then it is disgusting.