AIBU to be grossed out ?Autogynaphila and Mrs Goss

[Pollypickypocket]

Not quite sure if my reaction is justified to be honest. Have just been in a conversation with a psychologist friend about feminism, trans issues and various theories of the advantages of gender rolls in evolutionary theory etc - wide ranging and pretty interesting as we are both gender critical but have differing views on biological aspects. He however raised the issue of late transitioning autogynaphils and how part of the fetish is being acknowledged as female/feminine/sexually attractive. I was sort of aware of autogynaphila but didnt honestly click what it ment or that it was a sexual fetish rather than an identity issue.
On Facebook I am member of Mrs Gloss a make up group and it's just occurred to me that its actually being used on occasion by autogynaphils to fuel their sexual fetishes if what he says is correct and it's really freaked me out to be honest.

And it is a little unfair to call me naive based on what I've posted, the things you have experienced in person and directly upon yourself is hardly the same and someone using a picture/comment you put on the internet without any knowledge on your part is not the same as being violated. It is frankly outrageous to claim that it is.

Wanking where exactly are you getting this information? Where is it (reputably) detailed that AGP people find other women's menstruation (in actual reality, not as a fantasy about themselves)?

How many places would a man, trans or otherwise, have access to a women's toilet?

Can you categorically say that that is what an AGP person is defined as? As someone who get's off on being granted access to womens' spaces?

You honestly seem to put a lot of time and energy into thinking about/hating on this...

How many places would a man, trans or otherwise, have access to a women's toilet?

Erm..anywhere public...

Come on, you only need to read accounts of the wives of autogynephiliacs, or even the AGPs own words to see this. The amount of blogs...even interviews by Caitlyn Jenner for example, stealing their daughters/wives underwear to wank into. Getting a rush out of being in female loos, hearing other women pee around them.

reddit /asktransgender. take a peek if you don't believe me. Thousands upon thousands of AGPs all with the same fantasies, many acting them out.

You honestly seem to put a lot of time and energy into thinking about/hating on this...

Yes, as its quite an important issue at the moment. Lots of examples of males being pervs in female areas. If you haven't noticed. I fairly recently discovered this before that I was quite like you, defending it all. Something clicked round about the time I read about Ada Wells (look them up if you missed all of that...its rather interesting)

So you are honestly telling me that you have trawled the pages of Reddit, personally tallying the "thousands and thousands" of accounts of AGP people all fawning over how much of a rush it is to sneak into a women's toilet and hear them piss?

You'll have to forgive me but I find that incredibly hard to believe.

every time you perpetuate this guff about how ALL trans women are pervs and weirdos and equate them merely existing in public with actual sexual assault on women, is doing their work for them.

Where was this said please? Must have missed it. I have never ever seen it claimed that all transwomen are pervs and weirdos

So you are honestly telling me that you have trawled the pages of Reddit, personally tallying the "thousands and thousands" of accounts of AGP people all fawning over how much of a rush it is to sneak into a women's toilet and hear them piss?

I have read a lot of that group recently yes. As I didn't quite believe it was as bad as it is. You don't really have to 'trawl' very much to find a fair amount of AGP posts either tbf...

It's not the usual thing to admit to but I have a relative, plus DH has a thing about women's knickers. I think I've seen him in them via a photo, they're the kind I may have worn when I was a lot younger before I met him. I don't know why it's considered a thing, over the years it's gone from crazy skimpy to granny pants. He actually has granny pants in his knickers draw. I'm lucky I rarely venture upstairs so what he gets up to is his business.

The other person has a thing for silk, so silk ties, silk knickers, silk bed sheets. Again I can't explain it. It's not something that would ever be brought up in conversation. But I do recall the person dressing up in my clothes when we were younger, that was a mix between horrifying and hilarious.

So I think a lot of men have the, what does it feel like to be a woman.

I saw a post floating round on FB, something like what women would do if they had a penis for the day. They've pretty much summed it up by women looking at it, as if it were an alien creature and wiggling it a lot. I don't know many women who have the male fetish compared to men who are fascinated with being women.

I heard Caitlin Jenner has had the full op, that must be quite an experience. Curiosity wise I would wonder if you missed having something dangly. Not to be offensive in any way. I just wonder if you've transitioned fully if you think anything of the difference. Thinking from my perspective if I was a woman with a penis my main fascination would be wiggling it and seeing how it moved.

And just because they are posts on another popular form...

Subreddits become notoriously aligned with extreme views, it is usually a small but vocal minority. For example the pro abortionists of TwoXChromsomes.

I have had a look at the seemingly tolerant and reasonable subreddits with opinions of AGP. They're linking articles about the basic priciples of AGP (e.g. "getting an erection while putting on a dress") and acting like it is disgusting, or some kind of twisted conspiracy. You honestly need to get a grip and stop trying to find justification of your horrible prejudice views.

If you actually think about it, properly (rather than carrying on believing years of ridiculous propaganda about dangerous strangers of any kind) you ought to realise that someone listening to you/looking at you/.reading something you wrote has no effect on you at all unless and until that person makes an approach of some kind to you.
There are people who are sexually aroused by seeing others sneezing, crying, smoking, combing their hair or picking flowers. If those people ride on a bus sort-of-hoping to see another person doing one of their favourite activies so they've got something for the wank bank what harm is being done?

You honestly need to get a grip and stop trying to find justification of your horrible prejudice views.

Horrible prejudiced views..and what would those be? Not wanting to be involved in someone elses fetish? How odd. Is it also horrible and prejudiced that I find the couple who were obviously shagging in public (thinking it wasn't obvious..) whilst trying to make conversation with people disgusting? I don't like being part of other peoples fetishes/kinks. How awful.

I suspect you are coming from the view that I think all transwomen are AGPs? Which is incorrect.

Autogynephilia is a very odd fetish. Yes the person is aroused over the idea of themselves as a woman. But it goes beyond make up and hair.

It permeates all aspects of women and their biology. Not just the superficial trappings. So menstruation is a big one. The autogynephile who is terribly sympathetic about your period pains. The one who is very supportive of your pregnancy. All arousing.

There are menstruation kits they can buy to imitate menstuation.

Also listening to women in the toilet is arousing.

But the part for me which is the worst is that it is a humiliation fetish. They get off on the idea of being victims. It's misogyny really because they see women as victims. They will often wear overtly 'girly' clothing.

Another aspect which is very irritating is that they convince one another that all women have this fetish. They say women look in the mirror before they go out and admire their dress/pumps and therefore they have AGP. Blurring the lines between admiration and arousal. I have been known to say how the fuck do you think we all get dressed for work every day, in that case?

It's interesting that people here are saying it is the beefy guys in badly applied lipstick. A fairly reliable rule of thumb would be someone who is older and doesn't 'pass'. The ones who look gay in perfectly applied make up are probably not AGP. I would say if your intuition is troubling you, you are almost definitely right.

I asked myself whether I find the fetish offensive in and of itself. It's difficult. Because it is misogynistic.

I can spot an AGP talking to me at 10 paces. But many women
and girls, won't realise that the person behind the screen is furiously masturbating while the woman is innocently discussing tights.

I have a problem with the very first sentence I saw about how AGP "freaked you out". The fact that you read those reddit posts where even a small snapshot of them showed how hateful they are just confounds to me that you are being prejudice and unkind to one group of people.

My problem is not that I thought you thought all trans women were AGPs. My problem is the fact that you assume that all AGP people are disgusting perverts hell bent on invading womens' space and getting off at the expense of other women. It is entirely inaccurate. And the language you use about them is really off to me.

I won't be posting here anymore because I have more important things to do. I have said my peace. I just hate seeing ignorance and discomfort spread, it's not right.

if Miranda Yardley posted asking what you thought of her new lipstick or whatever, and you had no idea who she was apart from her profile pic, would you assume she was sat there knocking one out over the "it really suits you hun"s based on her appearance?

Miranda Yardley and her partner are not AGP. Bruce Jenner is. So is Grayson Perry. Self-confessed. Although he doesn't say he's a woman, so does not identify as trans.

It's usually men who remained attracted to women who get this fetish. Women don't have this fetishish. Women have hardly any fetishes.

And absolutely what VanHalen said. You remind me of those homophobic men who think all gay men must be attracted to them and want to take advantage of them. They are people with a different sexual preference to you. Get over yourself. Anyway I'm done.

I remember an encounter I had once in a tranvestite club. (I was there at the invitation of the person who ran it, on a journalistic assignment - I'm straight, hetero female). This was probably 15 years ago when trans politics and the nascent trans scene were slightly different.

Anyway, I was in the women's toilets (which, it being a trans club were being used by anyone who identified as female - fair enough). A ?trans woman (I don't want to mislabel, but at the time I would probably have called him/her a transvestite) started a conversation with me at the sinks about hair and makeup. The conversation started to make me feel uncomfortable. It seemed like the other person was really nervous. I wondered if perhaps they have only started cross dressing recently and have low confidence...Feeling like I ought to persist and help them through their nervousness about 'passing', I carried on the conversation despite not really wanting to. It felt all wrong. Actually, retrospectively, I don't think they were nervous, I think they were sexually aroused, and that's why I was hugely uncomfortable.

I'm putting this example in the ring, despite it being slightly muddy water (I don't want to move the conversation here back into the debate about bathrooms; I was a het/'cis' woman in a dedicated trans space here and it could have been any room with no one else present) because I think it maybe helps to illustrate why autogynophylia is alarming for women. You think you are having an innocuous conversation, but then realise that the conversation is cover for someone getting their rocks off. And you are left feeling deceived and unsafe as a result. Those are/were my feelings. I'm sure they had no intention of harming me, but I didn't want to be in that room alone with that person.

Is the online version of this encounter less troubling because the people are physically not in proximity? The dynamic is the same, isn't it?

If you are masturbating when you put a dress on in the privacy of your own home, is that a problem? The jury is out on that one for me. But as soon as it enters the public arena, in any way then it's a problem.

Quodlibet

I would always trust your spidey senses.

I have had a look at the seemingly tolerant and reasonable subreddits with opinions of AGP. They're linking articles about the basic priciples of AGP (e.g. "getting an erection while putting on a dress") and acting like it is disgusting, or some kind of twisted conspiracy. You honestly need to get a grip and stop trying to find justification of your horrible prejudice views

The problem isn't the dress or the arousal or the fantasy. The problem is involving non consenting people in that fantasy. For many the non consenting aspect of it is the biggest thrill of all. I have visited hundreds or these forums and heard repeatedly what a raging erection they get by deliberately involving non consenting people. That includes calling them a female name.

What's interesting is that they also talk openly about when they started doing it. They typically describe stealing female relatives clothing at a very young age. They talk openly about wanking into their sisters or mothers knickers and how smug they felt about it. I suspect that the thrill is not about the knickers, it's about violating the sister.

Many of them also do the same to their unsuspecting wives. They share their nearly got caught stories with glee. And they discuss how naive their wives are and how they explained away this or that. It's obvious that the deception is a massive turn on.

I didn't get this information from my friend or some dark corner of the web. I got it straight from them. They told me, and anyone else who visits those forums what it's all about.

Officervanhalen.
You do seem to make the assumption that any trans woman posting in a make up group is doing so for sexual gratification though, to be fair.

No, this thread is specifically about the subset of trans posting on Mrs Goss for AGP purposes. They are deceiving other people into contributing to their arousal with their comments.

Mrs Goss agreed it happens and is working out how to manage the situation.

If there was an FB page for AGPs to post and for women to comment admiringly, in full knowledge, then that would be different. Perhaps they should set one up. It would be interesting to see how many women want to contribute to a man's fantasy life in this way, and whether it would be as interesting to the posters once it is clearly consensual.

I was added onto MrsGloss by a friend but removed myself after a few weeks of the unutterable and relentless tedium of having my feed cluttered up by a bunch of pouty women a little too fond of their own reflections, all fishing for compliments about their appearance. It's supposed to be about reviewing and discussing cosmetics but it ceased to really be about that within a few weeks and just became a vehicle for a bunch of vain, self-obsessed dolly heads. And photos of really nasty, tacky false nails.

Frankly I don't give a stuff about the sex or gender identity of the the person pouting at me or asking me to rate their legs. I also don't give a stuff is someone wants to get their rocks off over the fact I might have mistaken them for a real woman.

I don't do that 'YY that lipstick looks great, but wow, you are truly stunning hun' nonsense for anyone, male or female.