to think going to a church service when atheist is not that big a deal?

[parentsvsPIL]

My atheist parents take their religion-bashing quite seriously. They make Richard Dawkins look nuanced.

DH and I sing in the local church choir, since it's a good choir, there aren't any other good choirs locally, and we are generally fine with the broad principles being espoused by the church, though we are not believers. It is made fairly explicit that church musicians are not required to be anything more than tolerant of religion.

My family is currently visiting. It being Easter, there's lots of nice music happening at the church, done by our choir. My family loves music and would typically go to anything on offer.

Family have refused outright to allow my niece to go to any of it as they don't want people forcing religion on her. My parents have also refused to go to any of it. My siblings have gone to one service and made lots of comments about being "forced to pray" (we're talking Anglican evensong here, not Billy Graham... they weren't forced to do anything!)

Is this really that big a deal? Well, it clearly is for them, but we just don't get what harm they think it's going to do...

No sorry an agnostic is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God (Wikipedia)

I don't believe there is a god so I'm definitely an atheist.

No, for atheism, there's an absence of belief in god.
People slice that up in different ways according to their agenda, but that's what it is.

Agnosticism is not knowing.

It only makes sense to say 'atheists believe that there is no god' if you are using belief in a non religious neutral way (ie a belief that a statement is true) so in the same way that I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, I do not believe that there is any such entity as god/gods.

This is completely different to my family members beliefs about the Christian god. They have religious belief/faith/confidence that their god exists in a very material way. That belief is core to the way they live their lives. My non belief is in contrast a fairly trivial fact about me. I don't believe in many things as well as gods. I'm a pretty evidence based sort of person, I don't really do faith.

My atheism isn't 'virtue signalling' what virtue would not believing in things that don't exist hold? I also don't see what twattiness the OP's parents are showing. They don't like religion or religious services so they don't wish to go to a service, even if their SIL is singing. To me this is similar to my vegetarian SIL not eating meat, even if I cook something fancy and delicious which includes an animal product she won't eat it. I won't be surprised or offended or consider her a twat if her principles mean I'm a little sad not to share my creation.

I like some hymns (childhood nostalgia) and will happily go to a wedding, baptism or funeral, but as an atheist I personally wouldn't choose to spend my Easter weekend in a church listening to the whole resurrection story, and I can see why your parents didn't want to either.

Its worth adding, too, that its not all benign 'love thy neighbour' stuff going on in some churches. I walked out of a Catholic church once when the priest started talking about abortion and likening abortion rates to the Holocaust. I would have been absolutely livid if my daughter had been there listening to that sort of shit...

If you cannot know of the existence of God (as per the wiki quotation) then it's an absence of knowledge and belief.

The root of the word is a-gnostic (without knowledge/belief)

The root of atheism is a-theism (without a god) which is a belief as much as theism.

My old mum used to argue debate with the vicar quite a bit.

They'd have right old ding dongs about gay rights (for them), mixed (religious) partnerships (ditto) and euthenasia (she was for it). God knows what else.

She'd have taken a minister to task for comparing abortion (not for it personally but pro-choice mostly) to the holocaust (a sacred cow with her as she lived through WW2).

If anyone suggested she'd end up in hell she'd tell them that she would most likely know more people there that she liked, and if heaven was full of 'people like you' she'd rather give it a miss.

She was a woman of the North. Dad was an atheist but used to have nice long chats with the vicar about theology over a whisky. They got on very well.

I'm atheist. For me, Christianity has done a lot of damage at home and around the world and I can't overlook it, however pretty the music or buildings. I would and do refuse to attend church services unless they're weddings or funerals and I won't sing hymns even at those. I would expect my family to respect my values around this as I respect their choice to attend.

It's done good too though. Atheism has done a shit lot of harm as well but it didn't stop me going to Russia in the old days of communism.

I'm an atheist and don't have a problem attending church for weddings, funerals or other family events.

I don't participate in the service (i.e. don't sing, pray, get involved in all the responses), but I do behave in a respectful fashion.

I don't expect people to have a go at me for being atheist, so I therefore don't expect to have the right to criticise anyone for going to church.

It is interesting. I am also the child of bigoted atheist parents who objected to my thinking for myself and converting into a religious faith. Tolerance and respect is a two way street.

Sadly not always. I think some people need to try to learn about/engage with the opposition/enemy before digging in.

Atheists or indeed people with different faiths wishing to attend religious services is not intolerant or "digging in". No one is "the enemy". There is religious education and information easily available: we don't need to attend services to seek to understand and muddle along with others.

There are some on both sides who do view the others as completely intolerable. You've read the threads!