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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think going to a church service when atheist is not that big a deal?

188 replies

parentsvsPIL · 16/04/2017 09:26

My atheist parents take their religion-bashing quite seriously. They make Richard Dawkins look nuanced.

DH and I sing in the local church choir, since it's a good choir, there aren't any other good choirs locally, and we are generally fine with the broad principles being espoused by the church, though we are not believers. It is made fairly explicit that church musicians are not required to be anything more than tolerant of religion.

My family is currently visiting. It being Easter, there's lots of nice music happening at the church, done by our choir. My family loves music and would typically go to anything on offer.

Family have refused outright to allow my niece to go to any of it as they don't want people forcing religion on her. My parents have also refused to go to any of it. My siblings have gone to one service and made lots of comments about being "forced to pray" (we're talking Anglican evensong here, not Billy Graham... they weren't forced to do anything!)

Is this really that big a deal? Well, it clearly is for them, but we just don't get what harm they think it's going to do... Confused

OP posts:
originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 10:46

I don't give to religious charities either. It has to be no strings attached (religious or political).

scaryteacher · 16/04/2017 10:46

Springer Have you worked out the connection between this being a holiday weekend and the most important date of the Christian year?

Emphasise · 16/04/2017 10:49

Lots of Christian Church leaders have attended eg Muslim services and vice versa Smile. Even the Catholic Church "allows" member to attend services run by other religions, recognising that if their faith is strong they will not be swayed.

I dont know any church that would be offended by the attendance of an athiest. They'd be thrilled at the opportunity Grin but again nothing to fear if your own beliefs are strong enough.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 16/04/2017 10:49

Christian charities do some great work- so do charities of other religions, but I will only donate if it involves practical help, not just proselytising, and that extends to political charities too (unless I specifically believe in their cause)

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 10:50

Ooh it's most likely very Solemn singing indeed. I love a good requiem. I love a good christmas hymn too. Its amazing I haven't burst into flames.

SmileEachDay · 16/04/2017 10:54

Emphasise I'm not talking about religious leaders attending each other's services, that's very different and more about an outward show of..I don't know really...aren't we all fabulous and hand shakes? PR?

I'm talking about your ordinary person. Attending services with a religion different to their own. I think many would feel very uncomfortable and wouldn't want to.

drudgewithagrudge · 16/04/2017 11:00

I started attending church when I was going through a bad time even though I am an agnostic as I found the services quite comforting in my distressed state.
However when I told one of the leading lights in the congregation about this they said I shouldn't be saying the Creed if I didn't believe it and I would be better off going to pub on Sundays . So that's what I do now. Much more understanding people there.

SpringerS · 16/04/2017 11:01

Springer Have you worked out the connection between this being a holiday weekend and the most important date of the Christian year?

Have you worked out that the holiday long, long, long, long, long predates Christianity? Because everyone with a modicum of historical knowledge has. Humans living in areas of the earth that experience discernible seasons have been celebrating the changes in weather, light and all that comes with it since we evolved past very basic sentience. Christians deliberately co-opted those celebrations for their own end and they don't get to be pissy or superior about it now that more and more people have decided to go back to the happy spring celebration without needing to include graphic stories of institutionalised torture and execution.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 11:01

I've been to a few weddings and funerals of different types. It's not about me but the families involved. It can be very boring or quite interesting.

Ceto · 16/04/2017 11:13

They're really being quite irrational given that they like religious music: why is listening to someone reciting prayers being forced to pray, when listening to something like the Gloria isn't? There's no reason why they couldn't take something for your niece to read quietly during the prayers and sermons. Plus it's good for her to know what it's all about so she can make her own mind up rather than follow blindly what her parents tell her - and I write as a died-in-the-wool atheist myself.

Bumbumtaloo · 16/04/2017 11:16

I'm an atheist, dh is agnostic and our dd's are undecided.

Our dd's are 5 & 7 and I have attended church for various services they have done. I find churches absolutely fascinating from an architectural point of view. When I have been to the service and it's at the point of prayer I bow my head - more out of respect- but I do not pray or say Amen.

If you speak to dd1 9/10 she will say she believes in God, which is absolutely fine, it's her choice. She knows some people believe and some don't, a bit like Father Christmas. It's up to her.

Dd2 tends to follow her sister tbh.

Neither have been christened, but if later in life they want to that's fine or decide to follow any religion for that matter its fine, it's their choice.

My MiL is a born again Christian she works for a Christian charity and we have attended some of the events in support of MiL. She has never tried to impose her beliefs on me, dh or dd's.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I can see why you are disappointed, I know I would be.

tanfield90 · 16/04/2017 11:32

I think it's perfectly possible, and reasonable, for a person to appreciate a church building and hymns without being a believer. I'm no Christian but I'm always a little awestruck by the architecture of Ripon Cathedral and York Minster, for example. There's a fair few hymns I like - Abide With Me is my favourite. The words are irrelevant but it's a gorgeous melody. Why not ?

BusyBeez99 · 16/04/2017 11:35

I wouldn't go either. Only go to church when have to for wedding or funeral. Otherwise I wouldn't set foot in a church

Dozer · 16/04/2017 11:41

It's reasonable for atheists to do that, and equally reasonable not to, tanfield.

kmc1111 · 16/04/2017 11:47

I won't go to any Christian church services bar the weddings and christenings I feel particularly obligated to. I had more than my fill as a child and it only brings back unpleasant memories.

Also all the churches around me are fairly old-school (including the ones who try to present themselves as cool and welcoming), and I'd feel like I was supporting misogyny and homophobia by coming out for them.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 12:01

See it's not all like that. Where I worked there was much excitement over the female bishop and a female colleague was training to be a minister. The vicar was pro same sex marriages and quite a few of us in the office had gay siblings.

HumphreyCobblers · 16/04/2017 12:01

I can't get over the fact that they happily listen to religious music, as long as it isn't in a church! Seems so sad to miss out on your son in law performing a solo in your favourite piece of music.

I am an atheist who is enthusiast for church music and art. They are missing out.

smurfit · 16/04/2017 12:44

I mainly just find it boring. I tend to the agnostic side over atheism. I've no problem attending religious events or whatever but it's just not interesting to me. I used to sing occasionally in church with my school choir and spent most of the time waiting to sing trying not to yawn Grin

But exposure to religion doesn't need to be dangerous. We had RE in primary school which didn't cause fanaticism and my piano teacher was a nun... she was a fabulous lady, if she didn't wear a habit and live in a convent you'd never have known her faith. She never pushed her faith and barely even mentioned it.

bananafish81 · 16/04/2017 13:25

I'm an atheist and I would come to a service to listen to a family member singing

BUT I'd feel very uncomfortable during the service

I've been sitting on my hands gnashing my teeth at friends' weddings and christenings when the vicar has used the captive audience of non church goers to proudly tell us that religious marriage is the only one that counts and christening is the mark of a food parent etc etc - I remember a friend who'd just got married in a registry office nearly walking out at the wedding when the former was proclaimed by the minister

See also being told that we ought to show our support for the couple / family by singing - and those of us who don't aren't supporting their marriage / christening. Well I don't want to sing praising Jesus - I was actually brought up Jewish and consider myself culturally Jewish but atheist in belief. I hate being made to feel guilty because my conscience says I prefer not to partake in the service, and that I am a lesser friend if I don't

I'm not a fan of going to synagogue either - but maybe because Judaism isn't a proselytising religion, the sermons seem to take a different tone (I have plenty of issues with them, mind you!!)

Perhaps I've just been unlucky with the services I've attended, but they made me feel deeply uncomfortable

bananafish81 · 16/04/2017 13:25

*good parent

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 13:33

Well you can't really expect to go to a particular ceremony and not expect them to sign its own praises! No organization is to say "So here we are Bill and Mary. You chose to marry here that's Ok suppose, if you really must. Could've gone to the Jehovah's at the end if the high Street. Nicer garden for photos I suppose. Oh well, its all a pike of shite really, isn't it?'. Funerals would be a gas.

I've been to religious funeral where i haven't had a clue what's going on but known that the family needed people to be there for them and I wanted to say goodbye surrounded by friendly faces (to pass the tissues).

BlackeyedSusan · 16/04/2017 13:40

ouch bananfish, that was insensitive.

ShelaghTurner · 16/04/2017 13:43

I've been to many a synagogue with friends and had a good old sing along. My Roman Catholicness doesn't affect my ability to enjoy it for what it is. I hate musicals but have sat through many. Surely a church service for an atheist is similar?

giraffesCantReachTheirToes · 16/04/2017 13:43

I'm an atheist but quite like a church service.

bananafish81 · 16/04/2017 13:44

I felt it was insensitive to be told we were shit friends for not wanting to sing praises to jesus and to be told our marriages didn't count because they weren't Christian marriages

I was there to support friends but felt very uncomfortable to be told we were lesser beings because we hadn't found jesus